Ostheer Play

I've always said that I found it was easier to play with Ostheer but for the past week or so I've been losing not stop with them. Anyone else ?

a fast t-70 is back in the meta imo and I just can't seem to be able to deal with it when it's well microed.

I've always said that I found it was easier to play with Ostheer but for the past week or so I've been losing not stop with them. Anyone else ?

a fast t-70 is back in the meta imo and I just can't seem to be able to deal with it when it's well microed.

When playing Germans lately, I always have the feeling to be one step behind... I hardly manage to win two consecutive games unless I go dull gren spam.

With Soviets on the other hand, I always feel like having the initiative.

Get your flamenwurfer to vet II. Win. On Minsk/Kharkov send assgrens to fuel/cutoff, micro around the Molotovs, then you can follow up with whatever unit floats your boat.

Ostheer is easy mode if you take it slow and let them do the screwing up. Get a feel for their fuel income and try to get your stuff together to faust the T70 and pak shot it early midgame. The riskiest part for T70 rush is right after you've started taking all their territory with flamenwurfer/lmg grens when you have isolated capping units. If you haven't seen Molotovs or AT nades you're about to get T70ed.

I am in the same rut.. Can't win as ost it's so damn hard now. But as soviets holy crap I feel in control.

Early game is harder since the MG42 nerfs. LMG42 is still very strong, as is getting a quick flame HT. A perfect T70 timing, assuming the soviets have held ~half the map the whole game is right around 8min. Realistically it'll be 8:30 or 9. This is delayed by ~30 seconds if you've had molotovs thrown at you, and another ~30 seconds for AT nades as a conservative estimate (really closer to 45-1 min).

As long as you're prepared for the T70 it isn't too difficult to counter. The most risky option is double up-gunned 222. Two up-gunned German scout cars will beat a T70 head on although this costs 140 munitions and runs a risk of getting shut down by guards/AT nades - not the path I'd suggest but it certainly is doable if you like your 222s.

My preferred reaction is a PaK and/or Schrecks into an Ostwind. Schrecks feel like a solid option again because the T70 can no longer crush, combined with a PaK you should be able to remain in control of a solid portion of the map. I follow up with an Ostwind because their T34/76 will be greatly delayed and the Ostwind will be able to do massive damage. This also has the added bonus of already being backed up by your PaK and/or schrecks - so the synergy is pretty cool. This option however is weaker to snipers since the snipers will be highly effective against both the PaK and the schreck squad.

Third option, if there are already snipers and guards on the field is to stall for a Stug. You should be able to get a Stug pretty quickly after the T-70, but generally waiting for a P4/Ostwind without any other T-70 counter on the field might be too risky in terms of map control lost. The Stug will be highly effective against the T-70, and has the added bonus of being the most powerful (statistically) AT counter available to Germans in T3, meaning it will also be very useful against T34/76s. Another reason the Stug could be a good choice in this situation is that Soviets will likely (assuming 1v1) not have access to ZiS since they already have snipers on the field, meaning your Stug won't really have much to worry about - just don't let it get flanked!

Just my 2 cents

As Sluzbenik points out it may be necessary to cheese with FHT and cause MP bleed and retreats before T70s come out. Inversly though, that means youve dumped fuel and muni in a unit that can do zero vs T70s.

222 is an option, but really, seriously, we alo know its a soft counter at best.
Extemely micro intensive to face a T70 amd you have small arms dmg to worry about to boot.

T70s are very good at backing out of Faust or even Shrek range, as well as actually killing the model attempting the Faust.

As is universally the case, mines are a valid option.

Personally, I absolutely need to improve my Mine and Pio play. I keep trying but keep failing at it though.

Altogether, I think T70 may need a small AI reduction. Its currently too much of a mini Ostwind as well as dominating light vehicles. The light vehicle counter I can understand asnjustified, but the AI? Bit too much.

First early T70 is somewhat manageable with soft AT, but when they start accumalating, not only do they cause horrific MP bleed, they also outstrip soft AT. Generally, if you dont manage to kill the initial T70 before the second one comes out, your fucked. You wont make T3 in time for a proper counter, cos youll be bleeding MP and map contol so hard.

Hence, all I got, really, as a suggestion, is Mines.
Lure the initial T70 into a Teller and be certain to finish it off with a Faust.
Therafter your opponents T70 spam snowball is halted.

Returning to FHT, really, it shouldnt be fielded unless your opponent is building Shocks or Support teams.
(Or fucking deliberate garrison abusing...) Otherwise you set yourself up for a world of hurt when that first T70 hits the field.

me too , i find it easier to win with soviets rather than ostheer , unless i go full grenspam and camp on cut off point but i dont do that , but i dont face lots of t70s , what i think is the popular meta with soviets is t2 with guards or schocks ( 2 maxims with guards or 1 atg with schocks ) , i have been doing it my self and it is very effective.

Basically if you dont grenspam to ostwind , then soviets are decent enough

As Sluzbenik points out it may be necessary to cheese with FHT and cause MP bleed and retreats before T70s come out. Inversly though, that means youve dumped fuel and muni in a unit that can do zero vs T70s.

222 is an option, but really, seriously, we alo know its a soft counter at best.
Extemely micro intensive to face a T70 amd you have small arms dmg to worry about to boot.

T70s are very good at backing out of Faust or even Shrek range, as well as actually killing the model attempting the Faust.

As is universally the case, mines are a valid option.

Personally, I absolutely need to improve my Mine and Pio play. I keep trying but keep failing at it though.

Altogether, I think T70 may need a small AI reduction. Its currently too much of a mini Ostwind as well as dominating light vehicles. The light vehicle counter I can understand asnjustified, but the AI? Bit too much.

First early T70 is somewhat manageable with soft AT, but when they start accumalating, not only do they cause horrific MP bleed, they also outstrip soft AT. Generally, if you dont manage to kill the initial T70 before the second one comes out, your fucked. You wont make T3 in time for a proper counter, cos youll be bleeding MP and map contol so hard.

Hence, all I got, really, as a suggestion, is Mines.
Lure the initial T70 into a Teller and be certain to finish it off with a Faust.
Therafter your opponents T70 spam snowball is halted.

Returning to FHT, really, it shouldnt be fielded unless your opponent is building Shocks or Support teams.
(Or fucking deliberate garrison abusing...) Otherwise you set yourself up for a world of hurt when that first T70 hits the field.

thx Nullist, I've adjusted my game regarding to when get a FHT and I'm 8-2 in my last 10 games.

thx Nullist, I've adjusted my game regarding to when get a FHT and I'm 8-2 in my last 10 games.

Glad to hear that. Followed your Twitch so hopefully I can see you do that in action someday.

FHT is indeed very powerful, but its easy to lose sight in light of that, that it is a very serious investment that actually may stall your progression., and limit your future options when you really need them.

I dont build them unless I see Shocks. And even then, only if I already fielded HT for transport and reinforce, otherwise I tech for Ostwinds.

I think HT can still raise its head in meta both as a transport, and more importantly, as an onfield mobile reinforce point.
Reinforcing onfield is a singular Ost advantage, and one I am convinced can be leveraged effectively, especially with Medkits, which I have yet to try and insert into this play, and which I hope will eventually be made more feasible (and again, a better place to spend Munis. Id rather have nonstop full health and model Grens on the field, than a HT Flamer)
Imagine that potential. It totally wrecks Sovs force cohesion when he is forced to either bring his units out from base one by one when forced eventually to retreat feom your perpetual reinforcement, or instead cede map control till he can bring them out together, whereas you NEVER EVEN left the field.

This is something I am trying to integrate into my 2Grens+MG taskforce, that does just about everything you need it to, plus being able to reinforce and rapidly redeploy onfield. Psychologically, the Flamer makes you prone to overextending. A better disciplined and more experienced player may be able to keep that under control, but I certainly just cant resist leading or chasing with it that little bit too far, which leads to fail, so I rather do without it.

I think Sov has the same "bloodlust" with T70s, and that also it what makes it that much easiee to lure them into a Mine+Faust.

Anyways, just some thoughts and inspiration. FHT should not be automatic.

If you're dying to T-70s you're doing something wrong, probably not getting Shrecks or PaKs.

If you're dying to T-70s you're doing something wrong, probably not getting Shrecks or PaKs.

No, its you who are doing something wrong if Shreks or PaK even remotely threaten your T70 snowball.

FOR FUCKS SHAKE just had a game where a luckyt at nade frontally penetrated my tiger which was lost to fucking at guns , , WITH NO FUCKING DEFLECTIONS , what is this shit ,its the 3rd game in a fucking row where conscripts and t34s get lucky frontal penetrations against tigers , first they take out all of ostheers indirect fire and then they give soviet weapon teams 6 man crews give soviet atg indirect fire same cost and same damage as the ostheer ones , and you cant flank 2 atgs 2 maxims cons and schocks for no fucking reason especially in the late game after many squands getting 1shotted , by all that shit , srsly , as ostheer i fyou dont finish the game under 30 mins your essentially defeated

FOR FUCKS SHAKE just had a game where a luckyt at nade frontally penetrated my tiger which was lost to fucking at guns , , WITH NO FUCKING DEFLECTIONS , what is this shit ,its the 3rd game in a fucking row where conscripts and t34s get lucky frontal penetrations against tigers , first they take out all of ostheers indirect fire and then they give soviet weapon teams 6 man crews give soviet atg indirect fire same cost and same damage as the ostheer ones , and you cant flank 2 atgs 2 maxims cons and schocks for no fucking reason especially in the late game after many squands getting 1shotted , by all that shit , srsly , as ostheer i fyou dont finish the game under 30 mins your essentially defeated

Did you just say soviet at guns do the same damage as paks, because that's just not true. Paks fire significantly faster.

Did you just say soviet at guns do the same damage as paks, because that's just not true. Paks fire significantly faster.

not dps damage , damage per shot , which is the main concern since atgs kill tanks which are somewhat slowed and soviets have an advantage on that because of oorah , so dps plays a secontary role , esp since criticals happen when vehicles are at low hp and it takes 2 hits to get to that . Furthermore the reload of pak40 is 2/3 that of the zis .