Scout Car AT Upgrade for Soviet T1?

guards already show up very close to, if not sooner than, the flame ht. guards are also more than adequate to kill a ht. 1 button or 1 nade and its dead. as for a non doctrinal answer, t2, mines, AT nades.

there will always be "less diversity" in the sense that some builds just dont work. to take an extreme example, no one will ever be able to pull off spamming only mortars. the reason is, its not a balanced army. if you build units that have an obvious weakness, you better build other units to protect that weakness. t1 is viable if you support it.

another example is assault grens. soviets counter them with m3s, so germans counter that with an upgunned 222. germans cant just spam assault grens only because they will get hard countered. if the german fails to built any AT, they lose. this is no different than building t1 and refusing to build some sort of AT. it would be nice if soviets could counter everything with t1, just like im sure germans would like a mobile counter to the m3 at t1 as well. i just dont see either of those happening, atleast not without restricting your doctrine choice.

Okay, guards and FHT can show up at approximately the same time, however guards are still not an adequate solution.

Let's continue with your examples. Obviously spamming a single unit is a bad idea. However with the current meta soviets can really only cost effectively purchase T1 or T2. Against assault grens you can build an M3 which counters them nicely, or you can build a maxim to suppress them - also counteracting them. Both T1 and T2 have tools to deal with assault grens that are non-doctrinal. However if I choose the M3 route to counter assault grens Ostheer still has options. If they built T1 they have gren squads. One faust from a gren squad is much more likely to be a death sentence for an M3 than an AT is to a FHT (which is fine). If the Ostheer did not build T1 and went straight to T2, they still have access to their AT gun - or 221 which is a mobile counter. They do have non-doctrinal options.

Basically this thread was to suggest another possible option of improvement to soviet T1 that is not doctrinal - one of the main reasons it seems to lack is because the FHT can run wild on them. I think everyone is well aware that soviet T1 is lacking.

People trying to claim Guard are not a light vehicle counter?

I can make a left turn by making three right turns. However that doesn't mean it's practical.

I can make a left turn by making three right turns. However that doesn't mean it's practical.

No. Each of those turns is still to the right. You've never turned left.
Are you trying to claim Guard are not a light vehicle counter?

Nullist is officially a grade A troll, or a certified fool.

Nullist is officially a grade A troll, or a certified fool.

And more ad hominem.

I asked a simple question. No need to get bent out of shape over it.

Is someone here actually claiming that Guard are not a light vehicle counter?
Yes/No.

If you are looking for a fool, reference the guy who thinks taking 3 right turns ends up as a left.

And if you are looking for a troll, reference your own completely offtopic and personal insulting. THAT is trolling, what you just did there.

And more ad hominem.

I asked a simple question. No need to get bent out of shape over it.

Is someone here actually claiming that Guard are not a light vehicle counter?
Yes/No.

If you are looking for a fool, reference the guy who thinks taking 3 right turns ends up as a left.

And if you are looking for a troll, reference your own completely offtopic and personal insulting. THAT is trolling, what you just did there.

It's light vehicle counter yes. But personally I don't consider vet2 FHT a light vehicle.

No. Each of those turns is still to the right. You've never turned left.
Are you trying to claim Guard are not a light vehicle counter?

Do you really need a diagram for this?.....

I'll sum up the point that the analogy apparently didn't. Yes guards can counter a light vehicle, that doesn't necessarily mean they are effective at doing so.

So one position is that FHTs are not a light vehicle, and the other that Guards are not an effective counter to light vehicles.

Thank you for answers finally that are pertinent to the question.

His reading comprehension is fine, he just doesn't understand that there's defensive and offensive counters. Doesn't matter that the flame ht would die trying to burn conscripts with a guard squad defending them when it can just leave or not stay in fights it would lose. He's like "I have scissor, now all paper on the map is countered!"

COH1 m8 died to shreks and paks in sustained fight just fine. But who stays with a faster unit to die? Guards can't give chase to the flame ht.

I see.

I thought that generally any unit can "just leave or not stay in fights it would lose", but perhaps I was mistaken.

I also thought that if Unit X can either kill or limit use of Unit Y, that it classified as a counter, but perhaps I was mistaken on that as well.

Thanks for the info. Ill try to refer to units as offensive and defensive counters from now on.

Now that thats done with, if anyone else has anything to say to me, Id appreciate if it was ontopic and only related to my actual ontopic post earlier:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10195/scout-car-at-upgrade-for-soviet-t1/post/92016

Guard are a soft counter. Aka defensive counter, although the term Soft Counter is used more.

Soft counters are effective if an enemy over commits, or if the target is a particularly weak version of the soft counter's intended target.