Rear Echelon Rework?

Rear Echelon are an interesting unit. They aren’t exactly an infantry squad with long range weapons, they aren’t exactly a close range squad either. They are cheap to buy, but aren’t that cheap to reinforce. They are possibly the most pointless builder unit in the game since they don’t need to build your base or repair your tanks either due to USF faction design. They aren’t op or up, they’re just kinda bland and without a defined role. I’d like to suggest a few very simple changes that should give them a role more in line with their original concept as being a cheap alternative to Riflemen that are good at defending, but bad at attacking.

It’s actually pretty simple.

Increase accuracy and rate of fire of their M1 Carbines.

Decrease accuracy on the move substantially.

With better stationary DPS they could hold ground against charging enemies and contribute to long ranged fights better. Possibly the stats of the pre-buff Riflemen M1 Garand could be used for this.

But the key point would be terrible moving accuracy. A 4 man rifleman squad with terrible moving accuracy would be decent at defending but terrible at assaulting or chasing retreating units.

I don’t think REs are imbalanced or need to be changed, but I think this would be an interesting change that could be considered in a future faction revamp. Thoughts?

I like this idea. Rear Echelon seem to have no real use in the game. Their small squad size and reinforcement costs means they're not even great for recrewing weapons with like Osttruppen.

I like this idea. Rear Echelon seem to have no real use in the game. Their small squad size and reinforcement costs means they're not even great for recrewing weapons with like Osttruppen.

The obvious problem is how do you do it without RE spam becoming a problem.

One way might be to give them a debuff to weapons racks weapons, most importantly BARs. Double BAR REs would effectively negate the moving accuracy penalty of the reworked Carbines. Without also reworking BARs a player could spam REs and use them defensively until unlocking weapon racks which would allow them to scale too well offensively. Giving them a BAR that has poor moving accuracy would still allow them to be strong defensively but retain their weakness on the move. M1919A6s still can’t fire on the move and as such shouldn’t be a problem, plus they are doctrinal. Bazookas are also fine as they are now, as they cannot fire on the move anyways.

RE get a 5 man on vet. I think they are fine.
They beat pios from mid range. And about equal in green cover close range.

And about equal in green cover close range.

Mentioning cover is redundant at close range.

A very bad idea. They are great the way they are already. They can equip bazookas plus minesweeper - great combo to support tanks. They can become 5 man squads and they vet quickly, especially with bazookas. The fact that they don't have to build or repair stuff, but can equip weapons from racks is already totally OP. You can just cap with them while some factions have to stop capping or supporting their main infantry to build base structures, repair, etc. If you put REs in cover or building they can already stop your opponent from pushing or they will damage your opponent's inf unit so that the rifle squad coming behind will win more easily. There are situations when they can hold against grenadiers long enough to give you time to react. You can speed repairs with them (re+crew). The fact that they even exist breaks the game balance in a sense that a USF player has huge map presence. I feel it is sort of situation: I have an extra unit that doesn't have to do much while other engineer units are busy, so I'd like to make it more powerful not realising that the unit is already more than good enough (btw - it already got buffed in many patches because of similar points of view, contributing to making USF OP).

RE get a 5 man on vet. I think they are fine.
They beat pios from mid range. And about equal in green cover close range.

I never said they aren’t fine, (in fact I explicitly said that they are) I’m just trying to get discussion going about how to make them more interesting.

What I’m trying to do is suggest things that could make the game more interesting both gameplay wise and thematically. At the moment REs are a rather bland platform for minesweepers and Bazookas.

My point isn’t that they are bad, my point is that they could be better. By better I don’t mean in raw power or combat effectiveness either. What I mean is that the unit could be better designed to fill its original role and give players a reason to build them.

When was the last time you saw someone actually build a squad of RE? Almost all players simply use the one starting squad as a sweeper unit and then out Bazookas in them because they have no other purpose. Occasionally you see a second squad to repair the Pershing but that’s an exception, not the rule.

Pioneers, Combat Engineers and Sturm Pioneers are all interesting units that can have multiple roles and really give the player a reason to build more than one for a number of reasons. Rear Echelons don’t really have any of these extra roles or incentives to build more than one, and since you already start with one you don’t need to build a second one and since their role as bazooka carrier can be done by literally any other squad and USF tanks can repair themselves there is often no reason to even replace them if you lose them either. Try not replacing your builders as any other faction and you’ll see why they’re so important and why Rear Echelons just aren’t.

Rear Echelons aren’t bad, they’re just kinda stupid.

I’m just trying to get discussion going about how to make them more interesting.
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What I’m trying to do is suggest things that could make the game more interesting both gameplay wise and thematically. At the moment REs are a rather bland platform for minesweepers and Bazookas.
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Rear Echelons aren’t bad, they’re just kinda stupid.

True - but it is all because of what I would call "rambo" style game development since the introduction of USK and OKW and later UKF followed the pattern. They movey away too far from the original paper/scisors/stone idea.

I would come back quickly to the idea that either you are an engineer or a combat unit. Engineer units should be best at repairing and supporting while other units should be good at fighting but bad support. USF broke this rule with their too OP vehicle crews and OKW with sturmpio avaliable from tier 0. Horrible idea. Crews, for example, are better at repairing than regular engineer units. OKW sturmpios imo were better than ostheer panzergrens when they were introduced. Just gross.

Quick solution:
Crit repairs should be, for example, moved only to engineer units, repairs should be quicker when performed by engineer units than by crews, etc. This alone would make echelons better. It would lead to players making tactical desicions such as - do I build another infantry squad to have raw killing power or maybe invest into a weaker engineer unit but will be able to support vehicles and fighting units better? Engineers should be squishy to make sure that combat units are a real threat to them. All this should be restored asap into the game. There could be like maybe one unit that is an exception from it, but not like echelons that are useless becuse free crews took over their job, or sturmpios killing all t0 units and being able to repair, mine, etc.

Just to mention, Rear Echelons are already awful on the move. Their moving accuracy multiplier of .25 is worse than Infantry Sections and equal to Osttruppen.

Just to mention, Rear Echelons are already awful on the move. Their moving accuracy multiplier of .25 is worse than Infantry Sections and equal to Osttruppen.

Just to mention also RE get one of the vet 1 bonuses with 20% accuracy.