Balance Team please look at this

Dear balance team,

here can be seen all the stuff which is not addressed at all in the patch

The only real abuse I saw was the vehicle crew population abuse. Other factors are more learn 2 play oriented. Also keep in mind that the balance team had a very limited scope with what they could actually play around with. Everyone knows USF crew pop abuse shouldn't be in the game but they weren't allowed to change that. They're hoping if this patch goes over well Relic will allow them to change more within the game.

The only real abuse I saw was the vehicle crew population abuse. Other factors are more learn 2 play oriented. Also keep in mind that the balance team had a very limited scope with what they could actually play around with. Everyone knows USF crew pop abuse shouldn't be in the game but they weren't allowed to change that. They're hoping if this patch goes over well Relic will allow them to change more within the game.

and 2 mortar pits+bofors with self repair killing everything dynamic in this game with stupid 1 click murderyourmicro abilities is fine?

Dear balance team,

here can be seen all the stuff which is not addressed at all in the patch

Dear DonnieChan

Since the abusive stuff and things that you talked about in this match is currently out of scope for the up coming patch. Atm Relic dosn't not allow the balance team to change or adjust the abusive stuff.

The balance team has no say in changing, relic told them what to change. If you read the patch notes Donnie over at the balance thread. You see the aim or scope of the patch and what is going to be changed.

Regards Kpen

and 2 mortar pits+bofors with self repair killing everything dynamic in this game with stupid 1 click murderyourmicro abilities is fine?

While I'd admit that commander is strong enough to be one of the best commanders of the june patch for british because its abilities are powerful, I don't think they're obscenely broken. Yes it could a slight cooldown increase or munitions cost increase on multiple abilities such as the command vehicle free recon and the standfast. Aside from the commander your ally had a JT for about 15 minutes before he decided to attack those emplacements. He also never used the 90 munition APCBC shell which lets you fire through that tree line they were hiding behind from the left flank. The right flank was also only guarded by a bofors for about 20 minutes of the game. That bofors also survived the entire game which should never be said for a bofors unless the UKF actually wins by crippling the enemy with said bofors. If theres a heavy tank on the field such as a KT or JT (both of which you had) emplacements can be dealt with easily in a well coordinated push.
Just as a side tip, if you see someone priest spamming with that tactic, get a couple p4s or pumas and just dive them. Neither Allied player built a single mine that game but if you're paranoid about that just move a sweeper up with them. Try and force the riflemen into another location as well so there won't be any AT nades.

@donniechan

what do you feel about this:

what if the brit, when building the first emplacement, gets a 'emplacement garrison unit' and the squad has to be in the emplacement to be working. And one player gets only ONE. so you can get mortar pit, bofors and 17 pounder but only one would be active at a time.

barring any balance of power issues, i think this is the best way to keep the emplacements but limit its cheeseyness.

The Pro advices coming in

If theres a heavy tank on the field such as a KT or JT (both of which you had) emplacements can be dealt with easily in a well coordinated push.
Just as a side tip, if you see someone priest spamming with that tactic, get a couple p4s or pumas and just dive them.

Ok now pls explain to me... What the HELL you wanna do with p4 or Puma vs zook blob and Comet spam???? Just waste your ressources and give free XP to opponent? (: As if it would be easy to dive around the enemy behind the lines on this small map.. lol

Uhm, everytime we pushed our heavy tanks, there were like 3-4 Priests firing on them. Even if you react immediately they lose ~50% health. The natural counter of Emplacements, the LeFh got rekt by the skillset of free recon (british CV) + 2 click precision strike (USF Infantry Company)

Imba vet 3 emplacement + brace + constant self repair (0 sec cooldown) even if the emplacement is in combat (!!!!) + def bonus from CV is not obscenely broken? Joke or..?

@donniechan

what do you feel about this:

what if the brit, when building the first emplacement, gets a 'emplacement garrison unit' and the squad has to be in the emplacement to be working. And one player gets only ONE. so you can get mortar pit, bofors and 17 pounder but only one would be active at a time.

barring any balance of power issues, i think this is the best way to keep the emplacements but limit its cheeseyness.

What about this one instead:

- Brace is removed
- Instead, mortar pits get an ungarrison ability that releases the mortars from the mortar pit
- The mortars can continue to fire and operate outside the mortar pit, but with limited range and efficiency (at sub-soviet level)
- Each mortar pit mortar requires 1 mortar squad garrisoned to be able to operate

What about this one instead:

- Brace is removed
- Instead, mortar pits get an ungarrison ability that releases the mortars from the mortar pit
- The mortars can continue to fire and operate outside the mortar pit, but with limited range and efficiency (at sub-soviet level)
- Each mortar pit mortar requires 1 mortar squad garrisoned to be able to operate

so you mean the actual emplacement is like a trench but for mortars only? Why not just do a comeback of mortars being able to get into trenches?

But I dont see why the mortar needs a range buff, if static. He is stationary yes, but also protected from easy enemy counter mortar wipes. Weapon range across 50-75% of the map just seems cancerous to me (like the current mortar emplacements or 120mm mortar)

Edit: The insane range of some mortars is one of the most important reasons why mortars are so fukin Overkill in this game.

The Pro advices coming in



Ok now pls explain to me... What the HELL you wanna do with p4 or Puma vs zook blob and Comet spam???? Just waste your ressources and give free XP to opponent? (: As if it would be easy to dive around the enemy behind the lines on this small map.. lol

Uhm, everytime we pushed our heavy tanks, there were like 3-4 Priests firing on them. Even if you react immediately they lose ~50% health. The natural counter of Emplacements, the LeFh got rekt by the skillset of free recon (british CV) + 2 click precision strike (USF Infantry Company)

Imba vet 3 emplacement + brace + constant self repair (0 sec cooldown) even if the emplacement is in combat (!!!!) + def bonus from CV is not obscenely broken? Joke or..?

Well considering early game you guys were so adamant on wasting your resources by sending your infantry to their cutoff and into a meatgrinder for manpower and then floated 400 fuel because of it and your first tank was a JT. I don't see wasting of resources changes your gameplay Kappa. In all seriousness to give advice though, Simcity players win when you allow them to setup multiple emplacements to protect each other. Your first tank being a JT at 15 command points relives so much pressure that you applied from holding that cutoff early. As for the zook blobs and comet spam, at most the brit player had 2 comets on the field at any one time. Earlier in the game the USF player had 2 REs and a vehicle crew running around with zooks, later in the game it was just 1 squad of REs. Regardless though, my comment stated you should force the rifle (there was only 1 rifle squad equiped with m1919s) into another engangment with your infantry so they would be unprepared for that push So you'd end up pushing up with your infantry and forcing the rifles back allowing for the tank rush, or distracting them allowing for the tank rush. With only 1 USF infantry squad sending in a few fusilier squads with a sturm sweeper could ward off 3 zook squads or at best 1 zook squad easily. If you're that worried about 1 or 2 comets send in Panthers for the rush. Comets have a 53% chance to pen front armor of a panther at max range so they trade very well against comets. Sitting back and letting someone spam priests and emplacements will allow their indirect to virtually get free kills and experience. You had the JT which allowed you to deal with those types of sitting back players but you didn't utilize it to its potential. The LefH is a solid counter to emplacements and generally does well against them. I did see it get off 1 barrage then got precision barraged. Other counters to emplacements includes medium tanks. Bofors are not nearly good enough to penetrate the OKW p4 and panthers while jagdpanzers have the range to avoid them. As for the map is to narrow to dive comment, yes it was a tight map, but for 20 minutes of the game prior to comets showing up all that was guarding the right flank was a bofors. A single medium tank could either force a rotation or just defeat the emplacements placed in mid. If they rotate push the left flank. They had very few mobile units to work with.

Well considering early game you guys were so adamant on wasting your resources by sending your infantry to their cutoff and into a meatgrinder for manpower and then floated 400 fuel because of it and your first tank was a JT.

Wait what?? I hold his cutoff for a long time, this delayed their light tanks so much so that they didnt even build them if you may have noticed

I don't see wasting of resources changes your gameplay Kappa. In all seriousness

Find the contradiction Show Spoiler

I don't see wasting of resources changes your gameplay Kappa. In all seriousness to give advice though, Simcity players win when you allow them to setup multiple emplacements to protect each other. .

Wow another pro advice Didn't know that, thanks

Your first tank being a JT at 15 command points relives so much pressure that you applied from holding that cutoff early. As for the zook blobs and comet spam, at most the brit player had 2 comets on the field at any one time. Earlier in the game the USF player had 2 REs and a vehicle crew running around with zooks, later in the game it was just 1 squad of REs..

I was constantly forced to spend mp due to their indirect fire, + our fuel income was low at some points.. p4, Puma etc would mean that JT or KT is impossible to bring out

Regardless though, my comment stated you should force the rifle (there was only 1 rifle squad equiped with m1919s) [.....] With only 1 USF infantry squad sending in a few fusilier squads with a sturm sweeper could ward off 3 zook squads or at best 1 zook squad easily.... the range As for the map is to narrow to dive comment, yes it was a tight map, but for 20 minutes of the game prior to comets showing up all that was guarding the right flank was a bofors. A single medium tank could either force a rotation or just defeat the emplacements placed in mid. If they rotate push the left flank. They had very few mobile units to work with.

Damn :/ sry I forgot that I also have maphack from replay observer mode, knowing exactly what Units of the opponent are on the field and where they are!

With only 1 USF infantry squad sending in a few fusilier squads with a sturm sweeper could ward off 3 zook squads or at best 1 zook squad easily. If you're that worried about 1 or 2 comets send in Panthers for the rush. Comets have a 53% chance to pen front armor of a panther at max range so they trade very well against comets.

Ok next time I will tell to my fusilers "What? You got a direct hit from a mortar shell and are almost dead? Np, continue the fight you lazzy bugger!"

Btw panther loses a 1:1 vs Comet most of the time, just FYI

sry but I haven't read so much pudding lately.

Wait what?? I hold his cutoff for a long time, this delayed their light tanks so much so that they didnt even build them if you may have noticed



Find the contradiction Show Spoiler

Wow another pro advice Didn't know that, thanks



I was constantly forced to spend mp due to their indirect fire, + our fuel income was low at some points.. p4, Puma etc would mean that JT or KT is impossible to bring out


Damn :/ sry I forgot that I also have maphack from replay observer mode, knowing exactly what Units of the opponent are on the field and where they are!



Ok next time I will tell to my fusilers "What? You got a direct hit from a mortar shell and are almost dead? Np, continue the fight you lazzy bugger!"

Btw panther loses a 1:1 vs Comet most of the time, just FYI

sry but I haven't read so much pudding lately.

I'll respond to your quotes in order.
1st: Yes you may have held off their light tanks but because you lacked the manpower to tech you couldn't apply pressure to their emplacements and the massing of priests. Something a medium tank could have done. They also didn't go light tanks which is stupid on their part but thats their gameplay issues.
2nd: Taking a line of text out of context is what stupid media sites use to trick underinformed people and easily swayed people. When you're debating with someone who is actually informed on a topic it has little effect compared to the effort you actually put into it. Either that or you don't understand what a period means. Personally I don't know.
3rd: Here you actually took the context of the line from the previous quote. Unsure how to respond because that just displays lack of connecting thoughts. To take something out of context and comment about it then directly after use it within it's context is mind boggling. Sarcasm is also not really appreciated and shows you do not wish to truely learn from your mistakes. Instead nearly lose to something you find unfair then when someone tells you "here this is what you could've done better" and respond with "hey I don't wanna learn new things I just want a nerf on things I don't want to play around".
4th: You're never "forced" to do anything. You kept going into this cycle once those mortar pits were up where you'd push out -> take some ground -> get blasted by mortars -> retreat -> reinforce. Also including the continueous reinforcement of the ISGs and the creation of the LeFH resulted in a lack of manpower and unable to tech up. However realizing this cycle would improve your gameplay midgame, maybe you'd push another flank so you lose less manpower while still caping, or maybe improve the micro of your ISGs so they take less model drops. Whatever the case would be, remaining in the cycle where you continue to bleed as you saw is no clearcut way to win. Finally, one of you guys had a mech truck however I forget who. I don't believe spending 65 fuel for a luchs or 70 fuel for a puma would truly impede your 400 fuel float to bring out a JT or KT. Infact, the puma is one of the best units to destroy emplacements. It out ranges bofors and can therefore safetly attack it and force rotations or even destroy it if it is supported.
5th: Realizing what your opponet has on the field is part of the game. All players use this ingame to estimate what units your opponet has and their possible locations. If you have seen your opponet has multiple REs with zooks, you can bet that those REs with zooks are on the map. Pretty simple stuff. For an example if you had a puma attack that bofors at long range, you could expect that those REs with zooks would rotate to defend that bofors. You may or may not see them rotate, but a good player will rotate a defense otherwise risk losing his emplacement. If he doesn't rotate, fantastic you can continue to deal damage to that emplacement and eventually kill it. If he does, you know he doesn't have as much or any AT somewhere else on the map, allowing for other armor to push in that location. Just because I could see all units in the replay doesn't mean I don't know what my opponet has and what they are in a real game.
6th: Mortars DO NOT track moving targets. If you can micro them to continuously move I'm certain 2-3 fusiliers and a sturm sweeper could avoid mortar fire. If the USF players decides to use his priests to barrage the push, pull back let them do it. Once those are finished use the same tactic, this time his priests are on CD. The USF player only had the 1 M1919 rifle and REs with zooks. REs can't hit a target for their life and 4 squads of infantry will decimate 1 squad of m1919 rifles.
Panther vs. Comet: For purposes of this example we'll be using the lategame scenario of the replay where your british opponet has fielded 2 comets simultaineously. You were floating 850 manpower and over 500 fuel. However, your PzHQ was destroyed. Reconstructing your PzHQ + 2 panthers as OKW in fuel costs 535 fuel total (15+120+200+200). In manpower total costs would be 1280 (100+200+490+490). With the current float and possible revoking a fusilier squad spawned recently, because you were calling in more fusiliers, the costs of 2 panthers could've been easily obtained.
Panther stats: 800HP, 320 Forward armor, 110 Rear armor, weapon kwk42_75mm: Range 50, Reload 6.1/6.4 min/max, Penetration 220/240/260 far/mid/near, Moving accuracy 0.65 multiplier, Damage 160.
Comet stats: 800HP, 290 Forward armor, 130 Rear armor, weapon comet_17p_77mm: Range 50, Reload 5.9/6.4 min/max, Penetration 170/190/210 far/mid/near, Moving accuracy 0.75 multiplier, Damage 160.
Now assuming you pushed up behind the left flank fuel with your 2 panthers pushing off the RE zooks and rifle squad with your fusiliers and sturm sweeper, the british man should come over with his 2 comets and try and fight the push. However when he gets there he has to stay at max range because of the fusilier AT snares. At max range the Comet has a 53.125% chance of pentrating the forward armor of the panthers while the panthers have a 75.862% chance to penetrate the comets front armor at max range. The best situation for the comets would be to engange in a moving battle with the panthers forcing the respective accuracy penalties on each tank. However due to the fusiliers AT snares they cannot advance towards the panthers for increased penetration chance. These numbers do not take into account base accuracy of either tank, the bonuses of veterancy, combatblitz and emergency war speed buffs and the possibility of the RE zooks returning from the base or the priests intervening. These numbers represent a 2v2 tank scenario which I created from the replay with best case scenarios using given units. The comets have a possible slight reload advantage but in a staionary fight stand close to no chance against the panthers. Its possible your RNG sucks and you miss 90% of panther shots, but statistically a panther should obliterate a comet as long as it remains Tank vs Tank and proper movement is utilized.

All the while your JT should be obliterating emplacements.

Hope this helped.

.......

I never said that there doesnt exist a stronger counter to this cheese. The problem is just that something like this even exists in CoH2

+ I just dont like this "Coach" behavior in video games. For example in every (top) CoH2 stream: If the streamer lost a match, there are like always some smartasses in Chat who say "Should have done this, should have done that"...

Sure! AFTER the match you are always smarter than during the match. Tell me something new pls And ofc I did mistakes that match, but as I said: Ingame, it's just an entirely different situation