A suspiciously timed "lost connection" against F13 clan

I don't know if relic is going to move on this, but below is my friend's email sent to their "enforcement" line. Following Marowi's camera movement, it is clear from the replay that he was experiencing sudden, crippling lag consistent with a suddenly useless internet connection.

"Please see the attached replay. As Axis team was beginning to win (toward the last third of the replay), the game became extremely laggy and non-responsive. Game visuals froze entirely, and Teamspeak voice communication became consistently broken up. After a minute or two of the game attempting to reconnect, I was disconnected, and found that my Internet service was extremely slow (unable to connect to Yahoo mail or Outlook servers, as well). Despite multiple attempts to reset router, Internet remained slow for 30-40 minutes before returning to normal. This appears consistent with a DDoS attack, and comes at a suspicious time (winning against an arranged team). It is also not typical for for Internet Service Provider, and it is the first time I have directly experienced this type of lag in 3-4 years of using this ISP.

Please also note: this is the third occurrence in which I have either experienced or witnessed something of this nature involving members of the f{13} team (Allied team in the attached replay). In at least three games against this team (occurring in the past 2-3 months), I have observed team-members mysteriously drop when they are winning or when the results of the match are inconclusive (no clear loss). In one instance, a teammate on Teamspeak appeared to experience the same lag and connection issues as I experienced in this replay."

Hey, this is {F13}Jack. We didn't DDOS you. There is only one person in F13 who could even theoretically possess the knowledge of how to DDOS, and he gets really pissy when opponents drop from good games. We play for fun, and people bailing for whatever reason is not fun. Your friend lagged out. That has nothing to do with us. This game is notorious for that. Hell it happens to me a few times a week. And given that we use the same TS server that you do, this complaint strikes me as incredibly petty. Grow up.

Hey, this is {F13}Jack. We didn't DDOS you. There is only one person in F13 who could even theoretically possess the knowledge of how to DDOS, and he gets really pissy when opponents drop from good games. We play for fun, and people bailing for whatever reason is not fun. Your friend lagged out. That has nothing to do with us. This game is notorious for that. Hell it happens to me a few times a week. And given that we use the same TS server that you do, this complaint strikes me as incredibly petty. Grow up.

Jack, happy to give you the benefit of the doubt and take your word for it, but it really has been the last three straight games (since we started paying attention) where something like this has happened and suspicion is not unreasonable. We really were all going, "holy crap, maybe they've really figured out how to do it?" as unlikely as that is. If roles were reversed, I'm sure you'd feel similarly. Could be a huge coincidence or maybe something sketchy is going on--it's not a huge deal (we've won a man down before), and it is just a game, but eyebrows were legitimately raised.

Hey, this is {F13}Jack. We didn't DDOS you. There is only one person in F13 who could even theoretically possess the knowledge of how to DDOS, and he gets really pissy when opponents drop from good games. We play for fun, and people bailing for whatever reason is not fun. Your friend lagged out. That has nothing to do with us. This game is notorious for that. Hell it happens to me a few times a week. And given that we use the same TS server that you do, this complaint strikes me as incredibly petty. Grow up.

Haha a couple things. (four).

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561198029819331
This is your playercard.

1) "Your friend lagged out. That has nothing to do with us. This game is notorious for that. Hell it happens to me a few times a week." You have 30 drops in 2329 games. That's a pretty low rate, and certainly not a few times a week. (As a side note, 14 of these were in teams with SenatorBix, which is odd because you've only played 358 games with him; I have no idea why your drop rate increase from .81% without him to 3.91% with him.)

A second note, however: I'm going to guess this figure includes crashes, rather than only lag/disconnects, because I've never had an internet-based drop, and I just checked my playercard and of 4099 games, it says I have 44 drops. I think it counts all exits from a game other than quitting, surrendering, or closing the client as drops. But, to give you the benefit of the doubt, we'll assume that all 30 of your drops have been from your internet failing you. You should think about switching ISPs.


2) Our position is: internet-based disconnections such as we experience in playing against your team are uncommon, yet seem to be quite common against F{13}. Your response is, "internet-based disconnections are quite common, it even happens all the time to me." The second part of your response is demonstrably false (supra), so this leaves us with your first contention, "internet-based disconnections are quite common." Isn't this the opposite position a member of F{13} should be taking? That is, if it's your experience as an F{13} player that people are always experiencing problems with their internet in this game, shouldn't that raise some eyebrows? We're saying it's rare; why are you saying it's common?

3) How often do people "drop from good games" with you? People usually either ragequit or play games through; why is it you have enough of a sample size to draw a pattern of behavior from your teammate from something that's pretty rare in our opinion? What qualifies as a "good game" to you? Is it a game against good opponents? Is it a game against scrubs? Do you notice your good opponents dropping more frequently? What about the scrubs? In your experience, how often do you notice people who have had a change of fortune in their favor "drop from good games"?

4) Hypothetically, let's assume I was on your team and I knew how to make our opponents drop. Would I tell you? Well, I don't know whether you'd be on board with that, and since I'm on your team, I might not want to jeopardize my play with you. What should my reaction be if I make someone drop? Happiness or no reaction at all might arouse suspicion; perhaps anger would be a better response? Why are you using a person's reaction to an occurrence as evidence they didn't do something?

I guess I'll close by saying that I completely believe your assertion that you don't know about any F{13} malfeasance, and that this is not meant to be an accusation directed towards you personally.

hitler, I don't know how the tabulation is done, or what the difference between a drop and a dispute is. It hardly matters though, because the very idea of us using a DDOS is ludicrous. We don't care about stats beyond "huh, cool." We want to play. When someone drops, it's wasted our time, regardless of why. It's insulting that you seem to think that not only would we do that, but that I would lie to you about it here. As far as my drops being higher with Bix, I'm not surprised because it has happened more in the last year than previously, and in that time frame I've stopped playing with quite so many people. As a side note, I rent from someone else, I have no control over my ISP.

As far as people dropping against us, yes it happens all the time, I would say upwards of 60% of our games someone drops before the 15 minute mark. I have no idea what combination of lag, ragequits, or fear of the clantag it is, but it aggravates us to no end and makes it much harder to find satisfying games.

Let me be clear. Marowi dropping upset us. We WANT 40-60 minute games. We WANT a good fight. We're not stat whores, we're easily bored challenge chasers. We aren't celebrating when we win in less than 25 minutes. We are getting frustrated at the lack of challenge.

Marowi, funny thing is, from our perspective, you were getting the rep of someone who drops when they lose expensive units. We had no idea it was a lag problem.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/403013/f13senatorbix_is_knowingly_causing_connection/

And I'd like to note that if any of the above is true, you should probably stop speaking in the first person plural with regards to your team.

Marowi, funny thing is, from our perspective, you were getting the rep of someone who drops when they lose expensive units. We had no idea it was a lag problem.

You're entitled to your opinion--but just wanna say a couple things. First, I think the only time I've dropped against you guys--intentionally or not--is in the above replay. The other two DCs complained about happened to folks on our AT who were on our TS that experienced the same Internet issues. The second is that, if you watch the above replay, I'm actually doing alright when the drop comes--two StuGs, plenty of MGs and Grens--and I had just taken out your Brit player's mortar-pit and Centaur. So, if I've finished out every other game (believe I have, even where my teammates dropped), I don't know where the opinion comes from. But, I won't tell you what to think.

some HOI 3v3 AT used to do it so i wouldnt be surprised.

shit dmdb used to cheat when he was in RtN and nobody in RtN knew about it.

To the OP, please don't make public cheating accusations, take this up with Relic and those involved privately.

LOCKED.