The pumas meagre 5cm gun could not penetrate sherman or T-34 frontally at all. At all.
Hell, the 5cm gun couldn't even penetrate the t-70 from the front...
EDIT : Gave the correct image |
Very good points Burt. There are a lot of things at work that made me decide to write this post.
It is like what you said:lack of good balance (in 4v4 games at least and historical accuracy
Obviously, if this game was too realistic, we would have Soviet might rolling all over the Germans; gameplay>realism especially in a computer game. However, I believe the current state of the game is not fun at all. Just the way the factions are designed leads to very frustrating and annoying gameplay.
Plus there are many WW2 myths being spread about all along media, games, etc., but that is too long to get into.
Basically this topic is a reaction to bad balance, bad design, and lack of historical accuracy on relics part. In addition, people defending the status quo using silly historical quibbles about Axis dominance doesn't help as well.
If this game was realistic, then it wouldn't be soviets streamrolling everything. COH2 is on the tactical level. Germans on the tactical level were ahead againts the soviets, if only slightly in 1944. They could still achieve tactical victories even in 1944, but then again, that doesn't really matter since they were never able to materialize their tactical victories into operational success. Something that the soviets were very well capable of doing .
That's where the stories of german "millitary dominance"
So if this game was historical, it would be quite balanced, if done right.
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Somehow the advantage of axis stuff is portrayed in the game, for example panthers beating t-34 in 1v1 (not that that really is an advantage at all, it justs shows that panther is better than a t-34 in 1v1)
While all the allied advantages get thrown out of the water and are left behind.
For example, the KT has better armor, better penetration than the IS-2, and better reload.... Okay.. Fine.
Then the KT main gun also has way more AOE and more accurate than the IS-2. ???
You might say, the KT was better than the IS-2 ,not that that exactly is true but in 1v1 fight it does make sense, but okay fine.
Then i could say that the IS-2 is superior to the TIGER I (which is mostly right)
But relic just basically gives IS-2 so the IS-2 has equal survivability againts german AT as the tiger to soviet AT,
and gives it a wholly inadequate gun, the IS-2 which was meant to smash fortifications and infantry, is wholly inadequate againts infantry due to it's gun missing all the time.
Question to relic... Where is the historical accuracy now?
T-34/76 has a poorer gun than the PIV, slower reload, okay fine..
But for some reason it ALSO has less armor than a PIV, and less speed due to blitzkrieg vet 1, and it's gun is also incredibly inneficent againts infantry when compared to the PIV, not to mention the pintle mounted machine gun...
Things like obersoldaten just obliterating everything is just pure fantasy, especially considering OKW is meant to represent german army of 44, so really, they should have inferior troops when compared to ostheer, not better.
For some reason axis infantry get basic weaponry for upgrades, while soviets have to use doctrines to get that.
I could go on and on, but you get the point.
Relic doesn't only portray the somewhat i guess realistic "advantages" Germany had over its competitors, they just go all out and make axis superior in every single way.
Bad balance, and bad historical accuracy.
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1. soviet non doctrinal unit performance
2. bunch of completely useless copy paste commanders
3. flamethrower halftrack
4. useless commander abilities
5. static arty
6. teching
7. poorly thought out vet abilities
8. copy paste vet abilities
9. vet abilities being unbalanced
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What is TWP???
How it compares to other AT guns is irrelevant.
How it performs within the faction design is. Is it too effective at its job? Debatable, I personally think its in a good spot.
TWP stands for target weakpoint. And if we bring the faction debate it, then i don't see why ostheer needs to have the better AT gun, their armor is hands down better than USF and slightly better than soviet armor and LMG grens at the moment are the best infantry unit in the game.
So i don't really see why PAK 40 should be so incredibly effective. |
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Ok, so lets look at all of the at guns
The 57mm, decent rate of fire, 4 man crew and needs to use munitions to have good penetration and has a great vet 1 ability.
ZIS-3 abysmal rate of fire, good penetration, bugged 6 man crews that make it very squishy and easy to kill, has a costly but decent barrage and has a okay vet 1 ability.
Raketenwerfer - kind of crappy at vet 0 bad range, misses quite often but with vet it gets very very good. To balance out it has vet 5, can retreat and be put inside buildings.
PAK - 40 - Incredible rate of fire, good penetration and a 4 man crew, by far the best at gun out there. It provides green cover and because of the incredible strenght of LMG grens and allies having generally more short-mid range oriented troops, these things are incredibly hard to kill, so their 4 man crew is not that big of a disadvantage.
Ok, so we can see, that all AT guns have weaknesses and strenghts, but i think the PAK 40s strenghts far outshine it's weaknesses.
2-3 of these will completely shutdown all armor, and even 1 can do great things.
Not to mention TWP will spell death for any stationary target.
I think it's rate of fire needs to be toned down slightly to be more inline with other AT guns, because right now, it completely dominates every single other at gun in the game and is heaps better than every single AT gun out there.
Because right now, the PAK 40 simply offers a huge advantage in armor vs armor fights when compared to other AT guns.
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Soviets by far.
USF can be fixed by just buffing bazookas, BARs and a few other things here and there (major arty, infantry company arty,WC 51 etc).
And of course nerfing kubels |
There is only one thing you need to understand when it comes to faction popularity.
97% - OKW
2.5% - Ostheer
0.5% - Soviets
USF -  |
Penals can't do anything to armor and unlike Gren's MG42 upgrade, their flamethrowers blow up easily in the middle of the fight then lost forever. You have to spend another 60 muni if you want to have it again.
Penal flamethrowers never explode. It's a saving grace they have that makes them somewhat useful in certain situations. |
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Good luck to Noun. Hopefully he finds his place. |
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Cheese
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
