The specific hard counter meta will always exist in this game. There is no way around it. It is the way the factions are designed.
2 things:
1. Do give a source for this, idd really love to see that.
2, what happens when you play double OkW on say minsk pocket, (or any other map where one can place b4 in base and hit the important parts of the map)You should just surrender when facing B4?
But B-4 has shorter max range and only one chance RNG will bless you.
If i read the stats correctly, both the ml-20 and the B4 have the same range (250).
Could you provide me with the source that states that the B4 has shorter range?
If you are afraid of B4 on those maps just veto them.
Wonderfull way of bypassing the second half of that part of the post, but besides that, you are also wrong: those maps were an example of where the B4 doesnt need to rotate, not maps where i fear the B4 (hilarious idea that i fear it btw, but ok).
If you have Stuka or Werfer, you can also have Tiger, Panther, King Tiger. If you have B4, you can't have IS2, ISU or even T34/85. All you have is B4, it's your main unit.
Give Stuka zu fuss 40sec relod but take away Panthers, Command Panther or King Tiger.
You miss the point, i was inquiring how you think the 120 sec reload is on stuka, compared to 60 sec on B4 (which you consider long).
And you missed the kv-1 btw.
It's never worth to shoot for a single wipe (unless it's vetted squad - by the way who the hell keeps vetted Obers in 1 place for so long that B4 can hit it? Move units, move units...). You don't know if 20sec later something huge will shows up.
Shoot every time it's ready and you will have no ammo after 2-4 strike at single squads.
I think i already explained why certain single units are worth to be wiped out. Besides that, every squad has to stand still at some point, wether it is with healing up, or fighting.
As for knowing if something else shows up, there is that recon plane in the commander.
And i never claimed to shoot at every single sqaud, much less with precision strike.
If you destroy vet 3 B-4 in late-game it's most of the time GG.
600 MP is a huge investment in late-game when you have wounded troops.
Also B4 without veterancy is useless against massive attack with Panther or King Tiger.
Even decrewing vetted B4 is usually gg. This is the momentum. If you won't use this moment it's your fault. Agasint decent opponent, losing vetted crew is gg.
I had a match against very decent opponents, where i lost 2 B4's (one of which with vet 1).
I simply build a third one and i daresay that B4 won us the game.
Because it's ok that incendiary strike, phosphor artillery or any other allied artillery can wipe the units in your base, but axis zeroing artillery is not allowed to do that and got ninja nerfed or bugged so it became completely useless. Can't give okw a counter for the b4 one click win artillery.
This is also the reason i will always go B4 when facing double OkW, they cannot counter it in a cost effective way.
Add to this rotation speed, moving units and you will shoot once every 3mins.
On most maps you dont need to rotate the B4 an awfull lot (looking at you minsk pocket and semoisky) but even if you need to rotate, you can do it before you start the firing animation/during the reload, saving you some time.
And i honestly wonder when you consider 60 seconds to be a long reload time, what you think of the Stuka zu Fuss with 120 seconds, or the werfer with 100 seconds? not to mention the fact that the reload time of the B4 becomes 35 seconds at vet 2.
And once every 3 minutes? with all respect to you, if your B4 fires once every 3 minutes you are doing something wrong.
As for shooting at lone squads, most grens run around with the lmg upgrade (60 muni) and most volks have the schreck (90 muni) so its very much worth it to kill those sqauds with the 90 muni precision strike. And with 60 sec reload, you can have your B4 ready for the next target.
Oh and obers are 400 mp, spending 90 muni to wipe them out is very much worth it, not even considering any veterancy.
On the note of destroying the B4 with risky pushses, even if you do succeed without great loss, what is there to prevent the enemy from building another B4? nothing at all, since it just forces you to move in again, with the odds stacked against you.
Edit: has anyone considered deliberatly choosing the B4, so the enemy would go for a commander with Stuka bomb? this way, you force the enemy commander decision, leading to a strategical advantage i think.
Also, I believe that if you build B4 just next to the HQ, you cant offmap it with OKW's artillery. Enemy bases are not targeteable anymore by Zeroing artillery/munitions artillery.
Certain OkW arty cant be dropped in base, but the one from OkW scavenger can (as can be seen in this replay).
However it doesnt always destroy the B4 so best start praying to RNG when you use it
Yeah, because you can move the B4 after each shot while the stuka is a stationary target... Oh wait? Let us not exaggerate, shall we?
Nice game though. A question: Why did you wait +15 minutes before you crewed the abandoned Panther outside your base? It was really annoying to see you not doing anything about it.
B4 got more range and as such is usually hidden inside the enemy base, or slightly out of it, whislt still covering most of the map, therefor its hard to take out with anything but off-maps.
(wasnt there a replay you got of a B4 on minsk that proves my point? >.>)
As for the panther, well that answer is as simple as it is silly, we both missed the fact that it got abandoned .
Still, RNG was with us, and it costs the enemy some troops so ye, all part of the plan
@Theodosios
By picking B4 i can force the enemy into going for say the ele commander, whislt not even having to build a B4 and still get a decent commander out of it. Forcing the enemy to do what i want is quite powerfull i find.
As for your spoiler:
But b4 is 'crazy OP'? FailFish I can see what is crazy here
Last time i checked the B4 doesnt cost any fuel to build, and is capable of instagibbing most tanks halfway accross the map by the click of a button at vet 1 (yee precision strike) and gets a 35 second cooldown at vet 2. It also becomes capable of destroying near anything that moves at vet 3 with its lovely 50% damage increase.
All of which the Stuka isnt/cant do (well maybe it can kill the american jackson, but i got to check that).
But ofc, the B4 is ok, since its doctrinal, same as the old Tiger Ace
And those numbers are from your replay, or the replay here? EDIT: your replay doesnt feature the B4, my bad.
If they are from this replay it can be explained rather simply, our enemies managed to kill 2 B4's by very daring pushses with their panthers (kudos for doing that) so the effiency of the third B4 is less, whilst there was only 1 stuka.
But to add to that, here is some of the kills of said B4 in this match
also some squads of inf ( i think some obers aswell), i didnt keep track.
As for the stuka? it killed mostly inf and some at guns, i got to ask CieZ what was lost, since he got most of it.
Let us not exaggerate, shall we?
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