Profile of pigsoup

Those basic core franchise mechanics being what? Was it a huge problem that Brits in CoH1 had it?

hard retreats, soft retreats, and the time management that goes along with it. being aggressive - high reward but higher risk of general retreat vs. more careful engagements and longer field prescience.

With FRP, the these aspects just disappears and why wouldn't you constantly attack if you can be back on field immediately, when retreating does not mean lesser field presence.

I'm not a 1v1 CoH tounrey elitist, so you will have to be gracious and define headbutting. Or for that matter, what gameplay means in contrast to balance.

Gameplay reason alone, the various manifestations of FRP makes three factions different from the other two.

It also sounds like more and more problems are being found from map design or size. Using FRP in a map like Hill 400 is way different than Lorsch Assault or General Mud, especially in a custom Annihilation match.

The most important thing people should realize, is that Forward Retreat is more than just ability to retreat elsewhere. There are loads of gameplay and balance considerations in the mix. So if there is a problem, it's that FRP is much more than just lower retreat downtime, when it should be JUST that.

i never played coh1 multiplayer.

yea, FRP make factions different. but i personally am not arguing "Eastern Front Armies don't have retreat points so its not fair". no one should have it. and FRP is the main draw for other people towards WFA+ armies, well so be it. I think there more than enough difference to merit playing WFA+ armies even without their FRPs. Seeing some people using terms "homogenisation" to argue against this is really just a witch hunt - 3 armies all have FRPs but they are vastly vastly different in other aspects.

If we can fix the maps that be great. If we can fix the maps so that FRP is used like in 1v1s, I probably go for that solution. But we can't fix maps that drastically. The whole underlying principle of same number of resource points and values for 1v1 maps to 4v4 maps does not make sense. it will not change. the idea of having half the size of 1v1 map for each player on either side to fight on in 4v4 maps is ludicrous. But we can't even half-ishly fix that even if we get a greenlight to attempt to fix the maps.

some ppl, including me thinks FRP impacts team games way more negatively than anything elae except forthw flawed map design philosophy which simply cannot be fixed.

i also have no idea how USF is weak late game...

it is quite surprising how many times FRP is argued as core of post WFA armies. that totally misses the point.

Blizzard, deep snow, mud were basic principles in CoH2 but it was removed because it went against other basic principle of CoH series, maneuvers - and the formers just got removed 'cause of that.

FRP messes with mechanics such as hard retreat (and opp. cost related to it), tactics of soft retreating and the very nature of back and forth-ness of vCoH2. that's a fact that supports neither side.

Also, i don't really see people arguing for removing FRP for balance reasons. its been around for 3 years. and if you are calling for removal or keeping of FRP due to balance, i think that is pretty weak.


The real question is whether FRP adds more pros than con in terms of gameplay wise. I think in that sense a poll would be a nice way to find out what people think and influence the decision to whether remove it or not - https://www.coh2.org/topic/61948/is-frp-beneficial-to-gameplay.

I argue that it is not. We all know relic designed and balanced the game around 1v1. FRP in that sense makes sense - maybe 10 sec off the retreat, or completely change the battlefield by basically moving the base to another corner of the map, OPP cost being that you get farther away from the region you decided stay away from. The maps in 1v1 are sizeable enough to make that kind of thinking make sense. All that gets destroyed as soon as you go up ONE gamemode. Instead 10 sec, its 30, 40, 50, 60 secs... Instead of helping you to focus on a part of the map by forgoing the other, you get to focus on only part of the map you need to focus on. FRP simply does not work as intended 2v2+, i would argue, and it disrupts the hard retreat, soft retreat and back and forth mechanics of CoH2 negatively.

I'll leave this question here: if FRP were to return/stay for whatever reason, how should it work?

i've been thinking about it for a while... just to have a compromise position... but i cant find any...

just ask yourself, balance modders, how much is 30-60+ sec off every retreat worth?... that requires no particular micro and can use hard retreat? How much of an opportunity cost is enough?

in that sense i guess capiqua's suggestion of 60 metre limit from the base is best but why not just remove it.

great okw changes.