Interesting stuff, which after reading the Vet guide over and the ability guide it leads me to some questions about SMG weapons and what is best to increase DPS.
Using Soviets as an example since they have several SMG squads, all of them get a 25% weapon cool down bonus at VET2 yet Airborne SMG Guards also get increased ACC as part the cloak bonus. How much of an effect does the ACC have compared to the weapon cooldown? You can't really use serealia to compare since it only compares VET0 to VET3 which also includes a 40% ACC increase for the SMG units.
Part of the reason I am interested is across all factions all cloak bonus give anywhere from 25-50% acc bonus. While the commissar "Not One Step Back" ability not only gives 20% ACC but also a massive 50% cooldown bonus as well. Wouldn't that make PPSH conscripts in Soviet Reserves put out massive damage?
Fun game, felt like we we were on the back foot until a couple key assists got us the infantry advantage. They had points advantage throughout most of the game.
Little bit of everything:
Couple KTs, Tiger, ISU152, IS2, Hetzer
I went airborne but sadly no penal SMG, I gave SVT to ally.
Rocket run where I tagged KT, JP4 and P4J also a couple random rams to kill tanks.
Got a satchel wipe, SMG Airborne and LMG airborne put in work
Overall fun game, I felt the heavy stall really messed up Axis when they had the advantage. They could have kept up pressure instead of allowing us to mount comeback.
reserve is bad because you only get an AT/MG and the commissar but nothing else that will help you fight later on.
The lack of doctrinal tank isn't exactly helping, it is a doctrine with alright early support but with no late game impact
My bad was thinking of a commander that would benefit Penals if SMG could be given. SMG Penal with Commissar buffs would allow for some interesting combos. But yes as it stands the commander requires coordination with allied players to get maximum benefit. However, fear propaganda along with howitzer in 3v3 or 4v4 is fairly potent.
Just my thoughts as midrank 2v2 SOV main player: penal build is a viable strat. That would may sound crazy, but they do feel like 0cp half elite infantry. Lots of clost-midrange firepower from the start of the game. As if balance team put all the eggs in the "DPS" basket, which left none for the utility one Very useful when you want just brut force push the opponent away. And, Relic forbid, somebody drops an LMG and Penals pick it up. Because of
But they do bleed a lot. Kind of makes recrewing multiple team weapons a very costly choice. The closest unit is riflemen, imo, minus mobility DPS + 1 dude, which do have similar setbacks if you start losing, which can't be replaced by dirt cheap 7 men squad.
So from the personal experience playing 2v2 they are fine. Kind of an all-in'y start, but definitely can be used.
Yea, I have been playing a bit more team games lately and they are great in team games since team mate can cover weakness. Like you said any misplay as Penal/Rifle and your really setback. Also I feel like the Vet1 works great as an SMG Squad since you are rewarded for staying in the fight and at VET2 according to Feb patch 20% cooldown/23% rec acc/30% Acc bonus make them probably the hardest hitting SMG unit at that timing. The problem is there is only one way to get SMG.
Also Katukov Soviet Reserve would work great in team games since you can get an AT drop without teching and commissar for buffs and fear propoganda.
I think most saw that the tourney was mostly SOV vs OST, thinking about it don't remember any one winning with another faction. What I found interesting was the announcers kind of repeating what everyone usually states about Penal/Rifleman bleeding to much, sandbags, mainline scaling along with commander choice. I know there probably won't be another patch but would be fun to argue some stuff.
About Rifle/Penal bleed: even with mobile reserves Penals tend to bleed a lot more than soviet faction is designed around. The 2MP is barely noticeable which is why I was thinking make it 4MP. Since Rifleman have similar playstyle and reinforce I would give them similar discount at Major tech.
Grens/PG: I don't really know how to address this since most players like to quickly pump out as many Grens as possible early. Nicko showed that an MG-less opening is a viable strat with the main weakness being bleed so to promote PG I was thinking of making LMG upgrade more expensive since the units playstyle works really well for late game fighting. I don't really want to increase MP cost since their reinforce cost is so high so muni cost might make PG more attractive.
PG: If muni cost isn't enough I was thinking of making G43 upgrade all 4 models, since PG aren't as blobby as PF it shouldn't be as big a problem. For team games it could be a problem but MP cost/Timing/Reinforce/muni cost should put a cap on potential.
Conscripts: The comeback potential despite bad play is a bit much especially with 7-man upgrade. I think also bumping their muni price would be wise. Right now the unit is too cheap for what it gives, say 80 muni also.
Weapon crate: Not really from the tournament but from watching different casted games, SVT conscripts are too good for their cost. The price should also be increased to 80 muni to slow it down. Along with price increase Penal squads should get double DP28 this would make upgrade equally attractive while being fairly expensive.
Sandbags: I think there should be a max of 5 sandbags per player. Sandbags become more tactical and requires micro when max has been reached.
Conscript Assault Package: Give Penals option to upgrade also, concripts get 4/Penal get 6 PPSH. It can open up different commanders such as soviet reserve or advance warfare to Penal starts.
I think with toning down Soviets/Ost it would allow OKW USF a little more play.
I like most of your ideas like the Conscript/Penal change. It would promote mix and matching instead of pure conscript spam we have now. The only change I would do is instead of flamethrower make the close range PPSH. As a four man squad it won't hit as hard but would probably be easier to balance around merge while keeping the "elites" as better versions of the Penal squad along with better equipment such as smoke/body armor/abilities. Earlier M5 would be welcome but with improved Con/Penal synergy might be a little too much. They would be able to overrun most players with decent play of sand bags with Penal DP28. Overall I think it would be fun as hell to play.
EDIT: I would also keep DP28 squad size to 4, Airborne would then be a large upgrade on durability/long range DPS. If you went with PPSH I would change that to 5 men instead due to change in play style.
Started playing some 2v2/3v3 again since Penal strats are a little more viable. I have had some off games and good games but overall most have been fun.
Some miscommunication early, asked ally if he wanted SVT drop he said yeah but proceeded to make penals. Rendered weapon drop slightly useless but whatever. After a little misplay early we pushed them back hard and had a wipe or 2. Partner called GG while enemy cursed our scout cars. We had plenty of map control but they slowly pushed us back. Due to my lack of team games my timing and unit composition is a little off so I float MP at various points. OKW pushes me back hard as I am MED tank stalling, I get it out and finally kill it. The game starts to go heavily their way once their tanks come out, we have poor tank play and barely any snares aside from mines. I throw away a few tanks either through ram or being out of position and ally loses his also. Shit is looking bleak and they call GG. Cant fault them, game is looking in the bag but we push on. I finally kill his P4J with a ram which gives me some breathing room. Looking at the replay OKW player was saving up for KT or JT, this let me back in the game. Even though he decided to make tanks instead of waiting it gave me a chance to catch some of his units off guard. I finally was able to steal a RAK which really put in a lot of work for me. 6 man plus retreat is a little broken which helped zone out his tanks while we put pressure back on. OST player seemed to always have MP issues so whenever he lost something it really stung. Near the end I finally see an opening when OKW misplayed P4J and I forced him to retreat with main gun crit, I noticed OST P4 waiting for repairs at top of map so I rush it kill it and run away along side of map while OST panther and ShrekPG chase me down but I get away in time. My ally proceeds to pressure his side of map and OST can keep up with micro and I kill a Shrek squad and steal Shrek. Ost Brummbar is forced back where he thinks it is safe and I take a chance with Rocket run get the kill and we pretty much seal the game as my ally rebuilt his tank force and puts massive pressure on them.
Funny that we both called GG way to early, fun one give it a watch and try not to laugh to hard.
Saw his name, cursed matchmaking and decided to play my favorite SMG Penals. He made scout car so I made PTRS to destroy it, did decent in Infantry combat but his map control kept me on my back foot and didn't really have muni to call in mg and upgrade units so I never made MG. I did manage to kill his Schwerer so I slowed down his beat down but his micro kept him in control regardless. Had fun hope you guys like it.
ppsh penals should come at cp1 like they used to and that would make it a worthwhile strat
Yea, would give them a decent time to do some damage before Axis LV hit the field. CP2 is pretty late for a upgrade that does not give smoke/camo/sprint. Camo and sprint I can understand but smoke would at least allow you to close in on MG or long range infantry. Diversion would actually allow the unit to shine in situational engagements. It sucks that they didn't just fix the whole conscript SVT balance. It is literally in almost every casted match.
Sounds like a sweet ability to put on SMG Penals since they don't have anything to make them worth the muni investment. This along with their VET1 ability along with VET2 cooldown/rec acc/and acc bonus would make SMG a viable upgrade.
For AssG/AssEngi it would probably be better to lock it behind tech or Vet1 since they could take over game extremely early.
Very useful when you want just brut force push the opponent away. And, Relic forbid, somebody drops an LMG and Penals pick it up. Because of 
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