Profile of Bryan

But sure, argue math.

So, when I said their cost, timing and performance were arguable, you took me quite literally!

I don't think you can use a doctrinal ability as a certain breakdown of how Relic calculates the value of munitions. An indicator certainly though. Iirc, a long time ago, PQ indicated the calculation for fuel and munitions to manpower. Can't remember where though and if it was in a stream etc. You won't find any argument from me that Obers need an adjustment, as my posts explained.

As an aside, for anyone interested in the basics of how they costed units:

http://pqumsieh.com/2014/01/27/balancing-multiplayer-games-part-1/

Obers scale better and don't pay munitions for their LMG. More utility as well. They come later in tech though.

Vanilla Pgrens vs vanilla paratroopers comparison dps wise is here: http://www.coh2-stats.com/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&squad1=paratrooper_squad_mp&squad2=panzer_grenadier_squad_mp&commit=Compare

In short, Pgrens start off as very good medium range troops who are glass cannons, they out dps Paras and have the option of upgrading to shreks which changes their role. They can be somewhat map/context dependent due to their range profile, but i'd argue that is good design.

Paras are good vanilla, and really shine with their AI upgrades, especially the LMG's because that weapon profile in Coh2 generally speaking, requires less micro and tactical thought. 2 LMG's on a durable platform for 120 munitions and 380 mp is a headache to face, like multiple Gren/ober/whatever squads with LMGs once they hit critical mass.

It's a 6 man squad and the initial cost of 380 is not their "real cost", as it includes an extra cost incurred for deploying on the battlefield. Their real cost is calculated as 336 mp, after deployment, if my hasty maths before a morning coffee is correct.

Reinforcement cost is calculated by halving the squads price, and dividing by their squad member count. So ergo for Paras, 28 mp a pop.

I'd only really take issue with their LMGS, everything else is fine about the unit imo. LMG's for all factions though are a tricky one to balance due to their weapon profiles.

Although like every other LMG unit bars obers, imo they should not be able to move and fire the dam things

Edit: Although I would not be opposed to a cost adjustment myself, e.g. make them actually cost 380 mp, thus they would have a higher reinforcement cost.

You'll be back, they all come back eventually!

I just quietly leave every once in a while and wander back occasionally. The game is in no state to take it at all seriously or play for long hours.

@ austerlitz and RMMLz, Yeah I feel ya's on where your coming from, the MG42 starts off lackluster due to a poor traverse speed and then jumps in performance at vet 2. Where for example, the Maxim starts off good and pretty much continues in the same vein. The MG42 with vet is better imo, but the Maxim is better at vet 0.

Personally think the MG42 could be tweaked to be a bit better from the start, but gain a bit less then it currently does with vet.

Alternatively, just make it so suppressed units can't throw nades for all factions. Would help allot and remove a bit of daftness from the game imo (crawl into nade range!)

Pgrens are good for their manpower cost, but will vary in effectiveness depending on the map/situation. I like that design tbh, unlike LMG grens/Obers/LMG paras, they require a bit more thought. Pity the new factions weren't designed with a similar mindset.

Scout car is a bitch to micro, turns like a truck and the acceleration rate is a bit meh for a glass cannon. Fix that and it'll be grand imo. Currently it is usable, but micro intensive and annoying.

I believe Ostheer get a discount on their LMG/Rifle nades as the tech is effectively built into the cost of tier one. But your paying for it in one lump sum effectively in the early game, which delays the t1 units and is a big investment in tech that you require munitions to use, which in the early game for Ostheer, is a bit light on the ground due to less map control and Ostheer requiring munitions for healing etc.

I prefer my original solution then a complete overhaul of the above, as I think incremental changes are easier to implement and judge. You have to consider, if you break it down so Ostheer can tech the LMG/Rifle nade etc individually, then t1 will cost less and Pgrens/scout cars/Pak will come much faster, which will present new balance considerations/challenges.

In regard to normal tech beyond t1, yeah, t4 is too expensive currently, again I like the common suggestion of adjusting the tech costs, so they are similar, but the buildings cost more and the tier tech less, so skipping a tier beyond t1 saves more resources.

But I feel that is another topic as Soviet tech would have to be adjusted at the same time