It doesn't matter how the units necessarily compare to each other, because if you're talking late game, the entire faction is ostensibly facing off with the entire faction, not some silly 1v1 vacuum.
Panzerfausts and AT nades alike have small enough ranges for infantry pathing to have trouble moving in range offensively. However, a gren or conscript by a Pak/ZiS can effectively stop a flanking advance.
They're used defensively, not offensively. Offensively using AT nades or panzerfausts is silly, because they inflict status effects more than damage, and using them offensively just makes it super easy for the damage to get repaired if the advance fails. Not to mention it requires forcing your units to rush at gun barrels out of cover. |
If a faction's ability to compete is contingent on the performance of a single unit, then there is a very serious design flaw. |
In vCoH the snipers were pretty much the closest things to identical. It was the only unit that both of the vanilla factions had at their disposal that was virtually on an even playing field.
Except in that case, the axis sniper was superior because of how wehrmacht bought vet, but the american sniper at vet3 became the most powerful with the ability to move at full speed and remain cloaked anywhere.
Having one unit in the game on an even playing field would be a very good, and much needed alteration to CoH2. The sniper team was a good idea, and very obviously some dev's personal pet project, so I cannot see things being touched.
But in the end, the way True Sight completely borks infantry's ability to fire consistently on anything, snipers are exceedingly hard to use in their intended role. Between the environment itself, and half the things that randomly blind the ability to fire, snipers have trouble maintaining range, (Except for soviets, with sprint.) The massing blob that can (nearly) wipe a squad in one volley and retreat is a war of attrition that hardly anything can overcome, just with veterancy alone. Even if A sovet sniper blob loses 1 squad member each, the amount of manpower dished out in a volley can still be worth it if a vetted squad is eliminated.
But honestly? I don't see the need for sniper blobs. Grenadiers are inept at spreading out in cover and they love humping each other in the trenches, so just about any explosive shell wipes whole squads in one shell after minute 20. |
It's a little distressing that the game lasts about as long as it takes to figure out the changes from the last patch before realizing that serious changes still need to occur.
It's only been over a year. |
Abandonment is something I've always liked about CoH2.
The problem, I see, is that abandonment happens at very odd times, and results in an incredible slingshot of army power. (Losing a panther or an ISU and giving the enemy one is a rather game changing swing.)
If it were to function in a more sane manner, the abandonment that occurs as an alternative to death should result in a salvageable wreck that first has to be repaired before recrewed.
This would give the player losing the vehicle a slight window of time to return to the field. Usually the vehicle has a main gun destroyed and a damaged/destroyed engine to begin with, but a requirement to repair the wreck to a recrewable state in cases of abandonment would make for less of an impact.
At the very least it would give a better window of time to destroy an abandoned vehicle before it gets repaired by the enemy.
Putting an mg42 in a bad spot and letting the enemy kill and steal it can be incredibly game changing too, but that's a very beloved feature. |
The "top players" bit is an excellent way to disregard 99% of the customer base. It feels democratic because anyone, if they try hard enough, can get there. But once there, then there's a very select group of people that can be listened to and ignored, rather than giving the nameless internet masses a voice to be silenced. |
I will agree to that. The Soviets are virtually crippled in effective unit choice in almost every respect.
I can sympathize with you there.
I really do wish penal battalions were still effective at range. I also wish guards were a standard infantry, their DP mg had a suppression ability (like vCoH BARs), and that they lacked PTRS and button until one of the commanders that now unlocks guards is chosen.
Which I think is the principal problem with balance discussions. No one knows where we should or could even begin, let alone agree on it. |
Maxims just need to have poor suppression at long range.
They should murderface anything close range, and quickly suppress, pin, and then kill anything at medium range.
But at long range they should do very little suppression. Fighting a maxim at long range (in cover) should be like fighting an infantry squad with a captured lmg42. Squads will lose members, but they will be able to return fire effectively and be able to retreat when needed.
Because the maxim can rotate and pack/set up so well, it's well designed to deal with an enemy poking around the perimeter trying to flank outside the maxim's cone of fire. Right now the maxim doesn't even have to utilize its superior rotation because it locks down squads at max range so well to begin with.
The maxim should punish any charging unit, which puts them in a wonderful defensive role. As long as there is a threshold of range where Axis forces can maneuver without fear of instant suppression and pinning at long range, the maxim will be relegated to a supportive role.
It would still be retain much of its function on the front lines, but it would require more than just more maxims to maintain a good field presence. |
Well that's my point. They can become relevant mid-late game without directly altering or adding abilities.
It seems like such a minor change, but the scaling would be spread across the entire game. The squads would have a more scalable durability on the field. Their ability to remain as a presence in combat would be extended just a slight amount.
All they need to do is survive long enough to knock a gren squad down a squad member or two and they've done more than pull their weight. Mid-late game anything but a full strength gren squad is just asking for an instagib from mines, mortars, tank shells, or anything American.
A little change will pay off in dividends, especially considering the utility of conscripts HQ upgrade abilities and how those scale to mid-late game.
And I was suggesting that they spawn with one SVT. Not enough to change how the squad functions, but enough to give them slightly bigger teeth as they lose squad members.
As far as those proposed changes, I don't think any of them are great solutions.
Merge and Oorah are not abilities I would ever spend resources on just to unlock. AT nades and molotovs are the number one thing about conscripts that make them a nasty thorn in the Axis side mid to late game.
Merge is pretty much ignored, and Oorah has limited utility. They would be ignored even more if they came from behind a resource wall. If anything unlocking them at t1/2 or t3/4 is infinitely more preferable, but still not ideal.
PPSH upgrades would be good, but considering there already are commander PPSH upgrades, I can't see it being an easy implementation. Not to mention it would require a number of commander redesigns just because the gameplay implications of turning conscripts into true CQC units without doctrine. |
Swapping SU76 and t70 puts Soviet t3 with two most generalist and soft-counter type units the Soviets have, one with a turret and one without.
T4 would then have a very dedicated anti infantry unit (t70) with a turret, and specialized anti tank unit without a turret.
That seems much more balanced than it stands with the t34 and SU85 having a sort of junior version of itself in its tier for virtually the same price.
It still doesn't change the fact that SU76s suck, but they're much more anti tank oriented than a t70. Whichever tier ends up with the SU76 is going to become the weaker tier.
A t70, SU85 and katyusha would make t4 wholly superior to t3.
As such, a functional role for the SU76 would be to act like the Axis puma: a vehicle sniper. Considering it's unturreted, it would be vastly harder to offensively push with the SU76, but it would be rather decent in a defensive role. |