Profile of Strummingbird

Update-(Storm) Ambush Camo replaced by Tactical Movement
(Infantry) G43s replaced by Opel Blitz

Yeah I quite like the changes you made to everything, except the Storm doctrine. Tactical Movement is very important for that ambush style of play I think, esepcially when your going for T2 shreck, mine and pak40 based AT.

Tactical Movement has won me a lot of games with that ability and I believe it would be sad to see it go from an clearly underappreicated doctrine.

That's a good point, especially after that game you streamed with the tactical movement pgrens and the 100 kill sniper. Never realized the potential of that ability.

Ambush camo was dropped from Storm, as it doesn't really synergize that well with the rest of the doctrine. Sure, panzershrecks in camo + riegels might be nice in theory, but ambush camo just feels lackluster.

As for the Infantry doctrine, it was (very correctly) pointed out that

G43 + assgrens seems a bit over the top

. G43s and AGrens would infringe on each other's niche, as more Agrens means 1. Less Grenadiers and 2. Less munitions to upgrade the Grenadiers. Vice versa applies as well. While Tactical Movement or Ambush Camo would fit the Infantry-aspect of the doctrine well, Tactical Movement already features in four or five other doctrines, and Ambush camo just isn't worth the munitions afaik. Hence, the Opel Blitz- a unit that is exclusive to Assault Support only right now- to add a bit of long-term endgame strength to the doctrine.

Redistribute resources, why didn't you add this to the blitzkrieg one?
Seems like the perfect doctrine for it. I would get rid of the stug then.

Blitzkrieg brings to mind the image of mechanized infantry and assault guns moving fast and working in a combined-arms manner, hence the Stug and halftrack call-ins. Adding redistribute resources to two doctrines other than the new DLC one might be excessive as well.

@Strummingbird: A global, one off fuel cost upgrade is already unprecedented in CoH2.
If PPSHs where made a universal nonCommander upgrade, it would have to be a muni upgrade PER UNIT, to remain consistent with the existing upgrade scheme in CoH2.

Unprecedented in Coh2 in terms of actual weapons only- molotovs and ATNades are fuel cost abilities (and to an extent, weapons). It would certainly not be unprecedented in the Coh franchise though, and from what I've heard people aren't averse to- and some welcome- the idea of fuel cost upgrades back again.

Admittedly weapon upgrades are still munition-only for the soviets and germans right now. It probably detracts from the game that this is so, though, given that the BAR + other rifle upgrades + supply yard + sherman upgun versus german fuel-consuming veterancy was an interesting dynamic that I always enjoyed playing with and watching in Coh1 casts.

Furthermore, to offset Cons Merge and Oorah, Id expect such a nonCommander upgrade to cost around 70-80 munis per unit, to retain equity.

I daresay I made a point about why there does not need to be an offset with regards to such abilities- because conscripts and flanking are the core of the soviet army, while the entire german T1 is the core of the german army. See my first post on this thread for more.

The idea of Penals acting as the core late-game infantry (which I believe is what you're proposing) just doesn't work, because-
1. Soviet tech structures take very long to build.
2. Soviet tech structures are relatively expensive, even the SWC.
3. As a result, given that it is either T1 OR T2 for the Soviets, almost never both, you'll only see the building Penals come out of in half your matches, let alone the penals themselves.
4. You still need conscripts to start the game- building off penals alone, or even transitioning from conscripts to penals later, just isn't feasible. Spending manpower and fuel on tech structures late game for unvetted anti-infantry infantry just doesn't cut it, imo, especially with call-in infantry in most doctrines. If you can make use of penals well, or players better than I can, then all power to them- I'll try to learn from that.
5. Therefore, Penals, as they are, a pure anti-infantry infantry unit from a tier that doesn't fit into everyone's build order, costly for their initial ability and somewhat fragile without veterancy for cost, and without most of the utility that conscripts or grenadiers provide, or the adaptability that panzergrenadiers or AT support that Guards provide, or raw survivability and damage that Shocks provide, are left high and dry without a niche in most of the games I've had the fortune to observe and play in.

AT rifles for Penals is an interesting idea, I'll grant you that, but AT nades are still much more useful as the game progresses from what I've seen. Even against vetted halftracks, guard AT rifles aren't the main draw- it's the button + AT nade from conscripts, or button + AT gun.

DISCLAIMER though- I am by no means good at this game- or even decent, actually. These comments are made from my limited understanding and observations of the game as it is now, and observing other people play on their streams. If someone could care to correct any mistakes I make (maybe penals have a niche I failed to notice and take advantage of?), I would be appreciative.

So what do you mean by "global upgrade"?

At what cost?
At what tier?
How many PPSHs?
How do you asymmetrically justify that with Cons native Merge and Oorah?
What is your ladder page?

You weren't asking me, but I'll give it a shot-
Cost- 200MP/60F would seem reasonable. About the price of a shock unit- the T70- not too little, so the german player can capitalize on seeing PPSHs with the appropriate counter (another MG?)- but not too much such that it becomes impractical.

What tier? After all conscript upgrades from the HQ, and after one of the two tiers (T1 or T2) are built. So that's 150 fuel- 25+25+40+60- from the start of the match, minus 40(?) fuel the soviet player starts with.

How many? 2 seems about fine currently. 2 PPSHs means conscripts still lose handily to Grenadiers with the LMG, but they put up a good fight and can win with a well placed molotov.

How do you justify it? Soviet teching places more emphasis on the Conscript as the mainline fighting unit, as seen from it being the only combat unit out of T0 and all other tiers taking a long time to build. This is as opposed to the Wehrmacht, where the T1 building is quick to finish and built right at the start usually, and provides a balanced mix of units that should supplement each other. Observe the rifle/volk dynamic in coh1- the rifle was better than the volk, and significantly better with BARs, but wehr T1 was balanced to american T1 because wehr T1 was built with the whole combined arms thing- MG, infantry, sniper- working together to fight american barracks with only one main fighting unit- the rifleman.

What does that mean in this context? The conscript squad could be better than the grenadier in terms of utility, and approach it it terms of combat strength, because the soviet system forces the soviet player to rely on the conscript alone for the early game whereas the german system promotes the use of the entire T1- not grenadier spam alone.

Ladder page? http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198047219124

Considering the complaints about units exclusive to just a single DLC commander, why not shuffle around units and abilities to other, currently less desirable commanders in order to
a)make them more viable, such as the underwhelming Blitzkrieg and Infantry doctrines available to the Wehrmacht and
b)to reduce unhappiness regarding CE buyers not getting any of the new units and abilities.

Here's the proposal:

Black dots indicate commanders that aren't free.

This way, there are no single abilities/units that are not available at all to CE buyers, and only four -Redistributable Resources, For Mother Russia, Booby Traps, and the B4 203mm howitzer- not available to anyone buying the stock edition of the game.

• German Infantry was pretty poor and many abilities didn't fit with the theme. Hence, the addition of AGrens and the trench. Every single German call-in infantry should be available to this doctrine now. The Opel was added to strengthen the late game without resorting to call-in tanks or off-maps.
  

• Storm Doctrine got Resource redistribution to synergize with the munition-hungry abilities it has, and lost Ambush Camoflage due to it not fitting with tactical movement well.
  

• Blitzkrieg had abilities that didn't fit it very well either- Panzer Tactician and Command tank aren't offensive weapons. Hence the addition of the call-in halftrack and assault gun.
  

• Festung support got the Ostruppen call-in, to differentiate it from the many other doctrines that already use Relief Infantry.
  

• The NKVD doctrine wasn't very impressive, and conscript replacement didn't fit it very well. Forward HQs might strengthen this (imo) rather weak doctrine.
  

• For Mother Russia, I think, fits the bill as something that supports conscripts. Hence the Conscript Support Doctrine.
  

• The SCA army might arguably be too powerful with Guards + the light AT gun, recon, and the KV1- letting the Soviets go T1-T4 with call-in anti tank early and call in anti-infantry vehicles late. But considering how good the other free doctrine the Soviets received was, the Soviet Shock army, this might be on par.
  

• And finally there's Terror. Booby Traps and the one-shot-one-kill-anything B4 howitzer are undeniably terror weapons.
  

Any thoughts?

Credits to Leiwounion for his commander table used to make this.

60 munitions is a fairly hefty sum early on, and there shouldn't be a chance for the man carrying the flamethrower to instantly evaporate to a critical, costing you the investment and often the squad. It's just annoying as the user of the flamethrower squad to lose it to RNG, and as the opponent there's no satisfaction in winning through luck.
Perhaps if there wasn't a chance for the flamethrower to explode when the man carrying it died, and when the squad was wiped out to the last man the flamethrower explosion animation would run instead? That way the animation asset wouldn't be wasted.

And then there are anti-tank grenades and fausts- would it not be better to standardize them such that only light engine damage can be taken? There really is no reason to allow the chance of heavy engine damage- it's frustrating to lose to RNG on the receiving end, especially where the first tank's fate can make or break a game. As the person fausting or ATnading, you can't count on heavy engine damage criticals to tip a fight anyway even now. Either way a change to eliminate heavy engine damage from handheld AT abilities would, I think, benefit the game in that you would know exactly what you're going to get- instead of getting screwed over by bad luck.