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I so much love how Inverse phrases the superiority of CoH1.
I'm a long-time COH vet, and I've been on a long break from CoH - was very disappointed by CoH2 at first, and haven't played either game for over a year. Now I played CoH2, for about two months. It's far better than I remember it being in alpha or at release time, and it's actually a pretty fun game, but it's still disappointing to see how much it lacks.
After that time playing CoH2, today I went ahead and played some good old CoH1 1v1 games. What a difference. It's playing both games that truly settles which one I like more. In CoH2, I missed lots of things about CoH1. Going back to CoH1, there's very little from CoH2 that I miss. And I'm happy to see it's still possible to find matches. Not a lot of activity by any means, but the game is alive. |
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Some things have to be accepted as the reality. I had come to terms with additional doctrines and bulletins as DLC way before playing the beta - that is simply the business model of modern games.
Where the beta left me disappointed is, after all, the overall standard of gameplay compared to CoH. CoH2 isn't bad but so far I can't see it holding up for years like CoH did. The key impression for me is that, aside from true sight, I can't think of anything significant that is better in CoH2 than in CoH. Doctrines, veterancy and the the sector system are all worse, UI and clarity are worse, and many little things also seem to be worse. Vehicle battles easily have the potential to be better though, if they actually give a chance of not having damaged engines after an exchange of blows.
Still, this is the best thread I've seen on CoH2. If Relic does some good tweaking to address the 4 initial issues raised here, the game would become much better. |
you can tech up with wsc or whatever its called as well  , yeah well conscrips are a molotov/grenade platform without ppsh and hug the dirt , imo rifles in general do very little damage and soviet mg gets decrwed by grenadier blobs and the population costs for the units is pretty bad right now but hopefully those are things which will be fixed in the future UNLIKE the UI .
Yeah I know you can go to support weapons, my point is whether it's viable at all to play with conscripts as your only infantry. Their damage dealing potential seems very low without PPsh, so my impression so far is that guards or shock troops are an absolute must unless you have the doctrine which makes your conscripts better. |
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I've played Soviets almost exclusively, but the MG seems to be a lot more efficient in suppressing. Damaging a MG in a house is impossible without Molotovs, so flanking is less effective.
I am hopefully wrong on this, but it also seems that Soviet teching is very linear due to the special rifle command being required - conscripts just seem unable to do damage to grens/pgrens after those get some vet or upgrades, requiring other units, which means special rifle command. Unless maybe one can make it with PPsh conscripts, but I am not sure about that. |
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I should also add that I'm not opposed to a comeback mechanic. I don't like games that are too short - one of the advantages of CoH over SC2 is, in my book, that you can't end the game in under 5 minutes against an unprepared opponent. But CoH did things well to give the winner an advantage, mostly in terms of resources. The longer you maintained a dominant position, the bigger your resource advantage became. |
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Not that long. A bit longer if your opponent absolutely refuses to quit, but still. If it's truly one sided, you'd just go blow their base up. Besides, if I recall the rate correctly, it'd take less than 8 and a half minutes to win by VPs if you held all 3 - something that was much easier to do in a one-sided game of CoH. That's one of the things that does not happen now because the losing player can still get enough units to keep zerging the victory points. Hence the need to kill wave after wave. |
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I agree with everything Tycho is saying and like how he puts it.
So far I've won the vast majority of my games. It's not that I am super-good but it just seems most opponents I get are much less experienced at CoH. And in these won games, I'm unable to wrap it up quickly by dealing a killer blow. Even when I dominate and am certain I will win, I still have to kill a couple waves of fresh opponent units because of the weird MP system. When I have units out of the wazoo, I have only enough MP to reinforce a conscript squad per minute while my opponent is getting fresh squads, which isn't even particularly a comeback enabler but rather drags the game out.
The game has a faster pace in terms of getting to vehicles more quickly and having more destroyed stuff. But it also drags. A lot. Vehicle pathing often prevents effective chasing of units, too. |
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Upkeep seems to be part of an overarching problem, that is, the game rewarding the loser almost as much as the winner. It's the same with veterancy, where taking damage gives you a lot. My vet3 squads are usually lowly conscripts that took a heavy battering. If you fight a battle where you overwhelm the enemy by outgunning him, he'll gain more veterancy as long as he manages to retreat.
It is encouraging to me that many problems could clearly be fixed just by tweaking numbers, but a bit worrying to see how many problems there currently are. |
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To me, retreat pathing feels to be p.art of the problem with the flamers feels. I just lost 3 Conscript squads on the retreat to a flame HT in one game, all 3 squads had 5 or 6 men when I started retreating. They had a horrible time trying to run around the HT and got roasted.
The German flame HT feels too powerful but I think it could be balanced just by fixing retreat pathing (and pathing in general, actually) and giving it a longer cooldown so that you have more opportunities to run in, throw a nade and run away without getting completely roasted.
While not balanced now, I'm glad to see that the flame halftracks don't seem to be headed for utter uselessness like in CoH1. |
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The problem isn't that blizzards limit line of sight. The problem is they also limit your, the player's, sight way too much. It becomes too hard to see what's going on with your units and generally on the map.
Units not seeing much is fine. But I should see things well. |
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