But if it can be escaped from by simply moving units out of its circle, why should it be nerfed? If it prevented timely escape, then yes, it would be OP and would need cost increase/stat decrease/whatever, but after reviewing its aspects -- including the fact that its circle can be escaped from -- you can come to a conclusion that it's not OP.
if you place it slightly behind the enemy vehicles (which you can due to recon) and then rush with comets, "timely esacpe" is absolutely impossible, especially for team weapons. end of discussion
im not gonna discuss this with you further. not trying to be rude, but you seem to be lacking the experience and gamesense also juding by your playercard |
That's not what I said. I said you should review the different aspects separately before making the conclusion on which one of those is making in OP, if any.
and thats the point. its not ONE OF THE ASPECTS, its ALL of them combined. therefore: this ability could be nerfed by raising its cost to 350 or whatever, by making it target a sector instead of a circle or by removing pin and debuff.
and what are you saying about "certain area"? is the area right now the certain area? or what?
Yes, and I didn't see a single example of this arty's circle preventing timely escape from it. It can be escaped from just like any other offmap ability.
if arty cover was only on the fuel point for example, it would have been WAY smaller and ALL arty covers would have had less effect. |
That's why you will find separate arguments on cost/stats/CP in any reasonable discussion of a certain ability/unit when debating balance in here.
you cannot just look at one singe specific point and say that something is op or not. OPness is always a function of all three things interconnected
And sorry, nothing personal but I can't take a random screenshot as a proof that the arty hits units outside of its circle.
that's ridiculous...
then go test it yourself, you will clearly see that the actual radius of the circle also shown beforehand in red on the minimap is way larger than what is shown afterwards to the enemy
edit:
proof here
before
after
Do you have a video/replay where a player on the receiving end of the Tactical Support Regiment artillery attempts to evade the circle but can not do so in time, in contrast to other circle-based or sector-based offmaps?
you just watched my replay, but its not the only instance for me in the last couple of days
i'm not gonna repeat myself on my other points, elchino7 sums it up pretty nicely |
I watched the replay and didn't see a single case where Axis armour was clearly out of the circle and hit with the arty. There were a couple of instances (such as this one) where your vehicles were on the edge of the circle (or just backing out of it when a shell was launched), but that =/= "clearly out" of it.
that wasn't the hardest "clearly out" in that game, but i'm too lazy to find a better one, so i hopped into cheat commands mod:
tha puma didnt move beforehand
But none of these features/stats will matter if you move out of its way, which is what you and I were debating in here. Let's not mix up different points. Focusing on one subject at a time -- and making separate conclusions on them -- is how you evolve a discussion.
a) you can't just look at at all point while ignoring the others
b) i wasn't just talking about round abilities
I'm looking at facts relevant to the discussion I'm participating in. We were discussing whether an ability circle is OP compared to sector activation, and that is what I was discussing. If you want to compare stats of the ability, that is a different discussion.
well a circular is usually better than a sector ability, because the shortest way out of a sector is usually faster than out of a circle |
As long as you pay attention to the minimap and move your units accordingly, you should have ample time to get out of the way of this arty ability too. If you have any replays/videos that show such attempts fail because of the size of the targeting circle, you can share those with us.
as i already wrote, the ability hits units that are clearly out of the circle. test it with cheatcommandsmod or watch my latest replay, which you will also find in the replay review section. additionally the attack is pretty much instant iirc
I can't see how each ability has to have two counters in order not to be considered OP. I listed one other offmap ability that is only countered by moving out of their way, and it never gets called OP because of that.
strength/counters is what rather counts. the only other offmap ability is sector thingy in the okw jt doc, and it costs the same i believe, doesnt pin, doesnt give some 2*reload debuff, is not that fast, not that precise and doesnt do that much damage. additionally it smokes the sector after the attack, which imo rathers hinders you than anything. last but not least driving out of a sector is faster, as the distance to the next sector is smaller than the radius of arty cover
I will not even respond to that shameful ad hominem attack in the post I'm replying to.
shamefull? well, it wasnt 100% nice, but come on. you argue without looking at a lot of facts |
I can't see how having to evade a circle rather than a sector is OP.
as the circle is much larger than the usual sector and additionally round, which means that from the center the edge is equidistant, this is much harder to do
Yes, and the counterplay to the Tactical Support Regiment arty is to evade it until it stops.
that is the counter to close the pocket aswell. but close the pocket has additional counters.....
how did you get strategist with that thinking? |
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i have several problems with this ability:
1) it attacks stuff outside of the radius shown on the minimap
2) it doesnt just kill stuff, it also pins everythig making it impossible to retreat, especially stuff like paks
3) getting vision is way too easy with the command vehicle (fortunately wbp will make that quite a bit harder)
4) the arty keeps coming down for a two or three shots even after loss of vision
and in contrast to most other AoE abilities, this is not planes, so they cannot be shot down and its also against every kind of unit, not just against tanks |
Maybe a Mod can change this Thread to Replay Reviews pls!
oh yeah, my bad. that game was draining my brain  |
hi,
just had a round on minsk pocket, me wehr, buddy okw, vs two brits. 4 counternsipes without losing sniper, bren carrier almost instantly destroyed, bofors killed, mortar pit killed, then we lost to 5? 6? artillery covers and comet spam
me losing the panther and the p4 was the only point where i felt i missplayed badly,
but otherwise i'm out of ideas. if anyone could watch that replay and give some fresh ideas, i'd be thankfull
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