I think soviet tech structures just cost an absurd amount of manpower for the way the game is right now considering they take an engineer be in base and build them.
Particularly t1/2. Building a 160 manpower structure is quite a lot when it doesn't give you anything better than the 80 mp ost barracks or the 100 mp t2. Building it minute 1 is killer on field presence.
That said soviets seem strong to me lategame if you can get past the expensive midgame with the good doctrinal tanks and cost effective infantry.
Notes on the Costs- I think you could add healing in there for soviets and USF since it is there for brits. I would take out the moltov as more than half of players skip it and nobody else has nades.You also don't have an RE in there, and I don't know if you added the battalion upgrade for a stewart unlock since its not listed.
The healing is included for USF and Soviets. Same as the battalion upgrade. Molotov is included just because without it 4 Cons can not be compared whatsoever to 4 Rifles/Sections in terms of combat strength.There is no rear echelon in there because USF start with it. |
So I was wondering how an early to mid-game build of the Allied factions compares in price. Each build contains of 4 mainline infantry units + AT gun + MG + 1 engineer unit + 1 LV + Heal
UKF
(including bolster + 3 med upgrades + 1 pyro upgrade for Sections, Vickers, 6 pounder, AEC +tech , Sapper)
2422 + 140 Fuel + 135 Muni
USF
(2 RM, CPT, LT, 50 cal, M1 ATG, Battalion upgrade+ Stuart, Ambulance)
2180 MP + 170 Fuel
Soviet
( 4 Cons, Maxim, Zis, T70, Molotov + AT grenade)
2655 MP + 190 Fuel
How is this fair when you consider both quality of units + cost?
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I really think vehicles, MGs, rocket artillery and bunkers are enough in terms of suppression. No way do we need more of that stuff. |
The UC is probably fine as a situational unit that you can use for long-range maps like Crossing.
Vickers is fine too.
Royal Engineers could use a little close range buff in my opinion so they can become UKF's non-doctrinal close-range infantry. Again situational depending on the map. Right now they are mediocre without flame thrower. If they got a slight DPS increase on range 0-10 they would be fine.
The Cromwell could use a bit of love, I find it to be the worst medium tank. I honestly prefer T34 76 over them because at least then you know you get AI. Just buff the MGs a little, that should be enough.
Comet is still in a difficult spot because of reasons I explained in the Comet thread.
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I wouldn't say that commando stens are useless completely, the best thing the british have for assault troops excluding the assault sections
He didn't say they are useless in general. What he meant was useless on long range.
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Removing the Faust would be the obvious thing to do. Falls are still too good overall if you considering 2 CP, moderate price and insane DPS after upgrade. No reason a unit that good vs infantry should have Faust. |
So after testing some more now I think the Comet is still too expensive. 175 fuel + Hammer tech is just too much to justify it over getting Cromwell or Centaur with Firefly.
Another problem that the Comet has IMO is the way it's HP and armour works. It has 800 HP and 290 armour. Those are good numbers when you are facing AT-guns and P4s but once there are Panthers, Elefants, Tigers or KTs out the high armour becomes less useful and you are stuck with 800 HP which is just ONE more hit than a regular medium tank. Plus the Comet can't penetrate any of the late game Axis tanks with high % so you are in a really difficult spot. Just so much easier to use Firefly and Churchill or Crocodile. So in a way the Comet despite its huge costs doesn't scare very well at all. At the moment everyone is going for heavy tanks so the Comet is really out of place.
It's soo much stronger to go for Tiger rush than getting a Comet. And the sad thing is that rushing a Tiger isn't really that much more expensive either. For OKW it's 415 fuel (T1+T4+heal+Tiger) while the Comet costs you 360 fuel (no bolster, no grenade, no weapon racks) or a whopping 410 fuel if you tech bolster+ grenades or racks (without these upgrade you can't fight until late game), meanwhile the Ost Tiger only costs 385 fuel + whatever buildings you want. I don't know how these costs are justified.
Let's pretend OKW and UKF have gone a standard build of Luchs+P4 and on the UKF side AEC+Cromwell+Bolster+Grenades. From there it will cost the OKW player another 230 fuel for the Tiger while the UKF player pays 220 fuel for Comet and tech. As long as the cost of getting a Comet remains that high Comets are never going to be used because it's just crazy that Axis players get Tigers for the same price as your Comet while Tigers are eating your Comet for breakfast while also having the ability to significantly decimate your infantry.
If the balance team wants to make Comets viable they have to give it more buffs. I'd start with a slight scatter buff, 960 HP and armour reduced to 250. |
I used it today and was utterly disgusted by the main gun's performance vs infantry. Isn't it supposed to be more reliable now? I felt like it was exactly like pre-patch Comet for some reason. Maybe the last buff made them accidentally go back to the pre-patch version? |
+1 |
Elite zooks are 100 damage versus 120 for the shrek, IIRC. I don't know what is the difference in penetration values or fire rates. They probably fire faster like Alphrum claims so the DPS could be the same or higher. I think only the paratroopers get the elite zooks but haven't played a lot of USF lately and am not sure. I've ran into the triple zook rangers a couple times and was surprised how fast they will mess up an OKW P4. That said, it doesn't really feel worse than having to deal with double shrek Panzerfusiliers as Soviet.
The rifle nade is more annoying than the rangers to me, as it is really good at denying the use of cover. The annoyance far exceeds the damage.
I posted the replay in the replay section. Not sure who to report it to.
No, Rangers get the elite bazookas. It was changed when they introduced Urban Assault and changed Rangers in general. |