I don´t mind Penals being stronger. It´s assymetric balance. As long as Ostheer lategame gets a buff it evens out. It only gets problematic if Ostheer is shit at everything like in the current patch.
Ost late game kinda needs a buff regardless. Okw is just straight stronger all game. Even brits and usf could almost arguably be called just better all around than ost. |
A_E nailed it with his video for me. Yes, gameplay>historical accuracy in many cases, but this most certainly is not one. Making Penals into an all-rounder mainline infantry when there is a certain unit called Conscript squad is just reversing the way the Soviet faction was created to/should work.
Yeah this is what really seems strange to me. Cons are hated on by so many players and in current meta only really exist to aid maxim spam or maybe at nade shit, even though they are really supposed to be the staple of the soviets. |
Camo costs 30MN.
The two doctrines I find a bit different - Storm promotes Riegel mine usage and doesn't give your Grenadiers any automatic/semiautomatic weapons to fire on the move, so it's somewhat more defensive than the Jaeger Infantry with its G43s and arty that can dislodge team weapons to assist your attacks.
On the other hand, having two abilities in common means they're not that different, especially if you use Panzergrenadiers who have automatic weapons to fire on the move.
Huh 30 muni is pretty cheap, but I see how the costs could pile up. Thanks for the commander analysis. Although, riegel mines kind of overlap with teller mines right? Just that they're like the m20 mines that immobilize, and tellers do more damage. Storm sounds kinda better for dragging team games since it gets Stuka bombs and lefH just from what I've seen. I'm kinda surprised that I haven't seen more people using this camo upgrade though. |
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I also like to try to force his attention somewhere (fuel point, vp, or cutoff) and just let my engineer squad run around with shift-click capture orders while all his units fight your units in one spot. This works with pretty much any faction. |
Another question.
How do I harass their resource points? My biggest problem it's that I get out caped really bad because I have to move my units togheter for them to be any use while allied infantry can fight on their own and, as they rely more on infantry than the ostheer, have more squads available to harass my points
Try to keep the pressure on with the 222s. As a mainly usf and Brit player, that or a fast luchs is mostly what keeps me from capping. If you have serious float, investing in another mg42 and shoving it in some building that covers a couple points or a really important one is a good idea too, because it'll take your opponent time and resources to dislodge it. |
The problem isn't losing 1 member, the problem is USF mortar altogether with the brit mortar and their natural ability to wipe 4men squads in two successive and quick blows.
Do this test with a friend. USF vs Ostheer and then Brit vs Ostheer.
1st game, make 1 or 2 mortar as USF
2nd game, play it as if the USF mortar weren't implemented.
3rd game Brit with a mortar pit
4th game Brit as if Brit didn't had mortar pit.
You'll see an incredible gap between having mortar and not having mortar in term of balance, it is like playing two different games. The nerf on the USF mortar is a good point of the version 1.5 cuz it was still too potent on 1.4
Note that for the USF and Brit mortar, I'm in favor of cutting their damage per shot in half. So their purpose isn't anymore to kill but to force move.
Ok I know it is a problem, but you realize brits suffer from four man squads as well, and ost's mortar is better than the usf mortar in wbp preview now. I almost never use mortar pits when I play brits, but my infantry sections almost never get wiped even though I really can't do anything about the mortars all game, as all you need to do to counter a pit is make more mortars. At least as ost you can counterfire with your own mortar. Although I kinda don't understand why grenadiers cost so much to reinforce. Pgrens cost are fine IMO, but greens are definitely the most expensive to reinforce, and don't scale to late game as well as allied inf.
It makes sense for like the first 5 minutes, but not after that. |
Took me some time to figure out what this meant. You people like to disfigure names, don't you.
On topic:
Ostheer infantry camo can be very useful for:
(1) Avoiding unfavourable engagements by using the Hold Fire option;
(2) Not being subject of mortar/sniper fire as your units are hidden;
(3) Having improved situational awareness as your infantry can scout around if there is enough cover to keep them in camo+hold fire;
(4) Improving survivability of HMG teams in mid/late game by hiding them in cover;
(5) Having higher damage output on units via a five-second damage bonus when coming out of camo.
Finally, the Storm doctrine -- one of the two doctrines with the ability -- comes with the universally useful Riegel mines, Tactical Movement and Stuka bombing strike abilities in addition to the LeFH, which can also be nice in certain situations.
The other doctrine (Jaeger Infantry) is also nice for upgrading infantry with even more abilities/equipment: squads receive G43s in addition to camo and Tactical Movement, while arty barrage and Stuka AT strafe help with various emergencies.
Whoops. I typed this on my phone and autocorrect probably got to it. How much does the camo upgrade cost? Also, do you have any preference of one doctrine over the other or are they pretty much equal? |
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Because seriously, it sounds so fun. |
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I don't play wear that often, but I find it much more fun than okw, if harder. But I've always wondered about that one commander ability that lets you upgrade your infantry to be able to camouflage in cover. This sounds sooooooo fun in my mind. I'm imagining an mg42 and a often squad just opening fire out of nowhere like commandos or some shit (but with way better guns). However, I think I played against this ability once ever, and I don't have the commander for it, but could buy with supply. Is this ability/commander decent or worth it? |
Yet PGs generally have more DPS than a lot of units at their intended range considering an StG is about as potent, if not a tad more, as a BAR from the mid-short range. They can beat Rifles, a unit meant to hold a faction together, at their own mid-short range game and Tommies can only win vs PGs at range. Furthermore, they excel at stopping infantry from getting on top of support weapons while are capable of demolishing other weapon teams on a good flank.
By the point which you state, Ostheer uses theirs vehicles(or pios) to poke in and see what's going on or find other methods to shift the position. Furthermore, PGs are not so crazy in terms of their MP cost as you'd expect for their level of durability and firepower. Only 34 vs the 30 of regular grens.
Panzergrenadiers are not in a bad spot and already had QoL changes to them given the fact they can now pop medkits on themselves and have a smoother transition between Vet 1-2. The only thing they need is their doctrinal stuff (G43) to be a tad bit more unique/useful.
Panzer grenadiers are really good infantry all around. The g43 upgrade is a bit tricky though, as its kinda hard to make a balanced anti-infantry upgrade that improves upon the stgs without making parents straight overpowered. |
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