Are the brit mortar, isgs and the ost mortar out of scope? While the USF mortar was clearly the worst offender, the ost mortar isn't really far behind it.
They all overperform at killing units in my opinion. The only mortar that needs active management to do anything and actually feels fine in it's role as a "support unit" is the soviet mortar. The other indirect fire options still grant free kills and squad wipes for next to no micro, just for being on the field.
I'd much prefer it if the barrage was slightly buffed (projectile speed or rate of fire) in exchange for nerfing the auto fire.
Relic Winter Balance Preview v1.5 Update
16 Jan 2017, 16:31 PM
#141
4 
Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
Help test the USF teching adjustment mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1553135357
16 Jan 2017, 18:55 PM
#142
Posts: 2066
Please don´t buff pgrens. There is nothing worse than fighting against 3hmgs42 with pgrens as USA. Buffing them would mean death sentence for USA
But what buffs can Ostheer infantry get then? Penals get everything from the cookie-jar, so why not others?
Penals can now undoctrinally:
Get a flamethrower with ppsh
Get ptrss'es
Get molotovs
Throw satchells (which stick to vehicles too)
I see nothing but Penals in the 1.5 mod. I must admit, I play nothing but penals in the 1.5 mod, since I already know that conscripts still aren't worth it, so it's either maxims, or penals. Since penals can pretty much counter everything in the early to mid game, why bother?
So, again, I ask: what buffs can Ostheer infantry get then? Penals get everything from the cookie-jar, so why not others?
Kappa
16 Jan 2017, 19:03 PM
#143
Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4
Permanently BannedIts about quad, can this unit be somthing like OKW aa ht ? with more range buff in his damage and supress only work nie only when he dont move ?
Relic killing our game, lets save COH2 from Relic 
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
16 Jan 2017, 19:14 PM
#144
1 Posts: 927
ostheer supposed to be shit, its by design obviously
16 Jan 2017, 20:21 PM
#145
Posts: 31
they should add this handbrake option to fixed/turret less tank destroyers too. so su76, su85, stugs, and what have you. can be fixed to a certain direction like at guns or mgs.
instead of acting like a mental case and rotating to aim at something you don't want to shoot at.
instead of acting like a mental case and rotating to aim at something you don't want to shoot at.
 | Playercard of BallBustinBABE | |||||||
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16 Jan 2017, 20:59 PM
#146
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Pgrens can now undoctrinally:
Get a STGs for free
Get schrecks
Throw satchells (effect is the same, cost and timing is smaller)
Fixed it for you, thank me later
16 Jan 2017, 21:33 PM
#147
Posts: 2066
Fixed it for you, thank me later
You actually think penals are fine? HAHAHA LOL
Kappa
17 Jan 2017, 10:20 AM
#148
Posts: 207
Fixed it for you, thank me later
Are you really defending the current state of Penals in (v1.5) and are you really suggesting that PGs are some sort of uber counter to all inf/tanks like Penals?
17 Jan 2017, 10:58 AM
#149
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
they should add this handbrake option to fixed/turret less tank destroyers too. so su76, su85, stugs, and what have you. can be fixed to a certain direction like at guns or mgs.
instead of acting like a mental case and rotating to aim at something you don't want to shoot at.
While this is an excellent idea, a better idea might be to give those things a hold-fire ability that will also prevent automatic rotation. Having all 3 abilities (prioritise vehicles, hold fire and handbreak) would be very messy.
Polluting the interface with things means it will be more difficult to convince for the need to add further QoL changes later on.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
17 Jan 2017, 12:33 PM
#150
4 Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
While this is an excellent idea, a better idea might be to give those things a hold-fire ability that will also prevent automatic rotation. Having all 3 abilities (prioritise vehicles, hold fire and handbreak) would be very messy.
Polluting the interface with things means it will be more difficult to convince for the need to add further QoL changes later on.
i think just hold fire is enough. free fire or hold fire. of course target lock should be possible with hold fire unlike now - as in sherman dozer in hold fire if ordered to attack a bunker will forge that order if you move it etc etc.
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17 Jan 2017, 15:03 PM
#151
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
You actually think penals are fine? HAHAHA LOL
It Implies from your previous post.
| !But what buffs can Ostheer infantry get then? Penals get everything from the cookie-jar, so why not others? Penals can now undoctrinally: Get a flamethrower with ppsh Get ptrss'es Get molotovs Throw satchells (which stick to vehicles too) I see nothing but Penals in the 1.5 mod. I must admit, I play nothing but penals in the 1.5 mod, since I already know that conscripts still aren't worth it, so it's either maxims, or penals. Since penals can pretty much counter everything in the early to mid game, why bother? So, again, I ask: what buffs can Ostheer infantry get then? Penals get everything from the cookie-jar, so why not others? |
I can only respond to what you write, not what you actually mean, and you claim that penals are cookie-jar, you see nothing but penals, penals can counter pretty much everything early mid game so why bother ?
Can you explain me this then. Because I don´t get it how you meant it
17 Jan 2017, 16:05 PM
#152
Posts: 327
A_E nailed it with his video for me. Yes, gameplay>historical accuracy in many cases, but this most certainly is not one. Making Penals into an all-rounder mainline infantry when there is a certain unit called Conscript squad is just reversing the way the Soviet faction was created to/should work.
17 Jan 2017, 23:26 PM
#153
1 Posts: 927
I have asked this over and over and never get any proper response so i ask again:
In the survey before you started working on the patch the popular opinion was wehrmacht lacked in mainline infantry scaling.
I have asked why you can't simply give them a 5 man squad upgrade in T4 so you have more reason teching to T4 than just for bigger tanks and more to spend fuel on than just tanks which adds OPTIONS not just more openings but LATEGAME OPTIONS which is severely lacking currently.
The answer i have been getting it is out of scope and too complicated, but why is buffing and changing penals not "out of scope" and just as complicated? You are reworking the entire role of the penal which was overperforming to begin with, and you claim adding a fifth guy to a grenadier squad late game is too complicated? Keep in mind the kar98 isn't the damage dealer in a grenadier squad so their dps would hardly change much, it's more to get rid of the one shot wipes of grenadiers.
In the survey before you started working on the patch the popular opinion was wehrmacht lacked in mainline infantry scaling.
I have asked why you can't simply give them a 5 man squad upgrade in T4 so you have more reason teching to T4 than just for bigger tanks and more to spend fuel on than just tanks which adds OPTIONS not just more openings but LATEGAME OPTIONS which is severely lacking currently.
The answer i have been getting it is out of scope and too complicated, but why is buffing and changing penals not "out of scope" and just as complicated? You are reworking the entire role of the penal which was overperforming to begin with, and you claim adding a fifth guy to a grenadier squad late game is too complicated? Keep in mind the kar98 isn't the damage dealer in a grenadier squad so their dps would hardly change much, it's more to get rid of the one shot wipes of grenadiers.
18 Jan 2017, 05:12 AM
#154
Posts: 773
Snip
I'd like to see T4 reworked into improving infantry also, but you have to remember whether you like the current direction or not, lelic is still choking the chains, if they let the team loose on all factions could you imagine how messy that would become?
I appreciate the work they are doing, I don't like some of it and like everyone else think Penals was the wrong place to focus when there are other glaring problems (UKF Snare am I right (Joke BTW)) like Gren survivability first. But they can only do so much. We just have to hold our breath and hope they are green lit to fix the problems once this patch is over.
18 Jan 2017, 07:28 AM
#155
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
I have asked this over and over and never get any proper response so i ask again:
In the survey before you started working on the patch the popular opinion was wehrmacht lacked in mainline infantry scaling.
I have asked why you can't simply give them a 5 man squad upgrade in T4 so you have more reason teching to T4 than just for bigger tanks and more to spend fuel on than just tanks which adds OPTIONS not just more openings but LATEGAME OPTIONS which is severely lacking currently.
The answer i have been getting it is out of scope and too complicated, but why is buffing and changing penals not "out of scope" and just as complicated? You are reworking the entire role of the penal which was overperforming to begin with, and you claim adding a fifth guy to a grenadier squad late game is too complicated? Keep in mind the kar98 isn't the damage dealer in a grenadier squad so their dps would hardly change much, it's more to get rid of the one shot wipes of grenadiers.
Cuz they don't need it maybe. Asking the question over and over and not accepting the answer provided to you doesn't mean you are right.
Ostheer infantry need less squad wipe = improve model spacing, nerf USF mortar, nerf vet3 rifle RA, nerf Brit Engi double nerf, nerf mid game medium tank AI power, nerf mid game light vehicle M15/M20 power etc... It isn't enough? Well more mods and patches are coming after if this one succeed.
Since the begining of the mod presentation and even since before, modders stated it: Ostheer is the reference, they want to balance other factions from it. So why would they change the reference?
18 Jan 2017, 12:36 PM
#156
1 Posts: 927
Cuz they don't need it maybe. Asking the question over and over and not accepting the answer provided to you doesn't mean you are right.
Ostheer infantry need less squad wipe = improve model spacing, nerf USF mortar, nerf vet3 rifle RA, nerf Brit Engi double nerf, nerf mid game medium tank AI power, nerf mid game light vehicle M15/M20 power etc... It isn't enough? Well more mods and patches are coming after if this one succeed.
Since the begining of the mod presentation and even since before, modders stated it: Ostheer is the reference, they want to balance other factions from it. So why would they change the reference?
The model spacing rework won't help grenadiers, it only improves so squads doesn't clump when rapidly clicking them in different directions. Grenadiers still get wiped to 1 mortar shell, 1 tank shot, 1 grenade by just standing in their standard formation.
Also it isn't about MY question but relics survey what people wanted done in the next patch and ostheer infantry scaling won overwhelmingly so I am quiet confused why the patch is ALL about reworking penals when the survey wanted it about ostheer infantry. Also fixing ostheer infantry is a lot less complicated than creating new multiple roles for penals.
18 Jan 2017, 13:11 PM
#157
Posts: 1003
The model spacing rework won't help grenadiers, it only improves so squads doesn't clump when rapidly clicking them in different directions. Grenadiers still get wiped to 1 mortar shell, 1 tank shot, 1 grenade by just standing in their standard formation.
This easily happen every infantry in the current state. Try Brits Tommies put in cover and fight versus MG, covered with mortar. After one shot better you leave the cover, than risking sqad wipe. At first I was angry only on Ost mortar, but they do it all.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
18 Jan 2017, 14:04 PM
#158
Posts: 1217
I don´t mind Penals being stronger. It´s assymetric balance. As long as Ostheer lategame gets a buff it evens out. It only gets problematic if Ostheer is shit at everything like in the current patch.
18 Jan 2017, 14:50 PM
#159
Posts: 3053
A_E nailed it with his video for me. Yes, gameplay>historical accuracy in many cases, but this most certainly is not one. Making Penals into an all-rounder mainline infantry when there is a certain unit called Conscript squad is just reversing the way the Soviet faction was created to/should work.
Yeah this is what really seems strange to me. Cons are hated on by so many players and in current meta only really exist to aid maxim spam or maybe at nade shit, even though they are really supposed to be the staple of the soviets.
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18 Jan 2017, 14:52 PM
#160
Posts: 3053
I don´t mind Penals being stronger. It´s assymetric balance. As long as Ostheer lategame gets a buff it evens out. It only gets problematic if Ostheer is shit at everything like in the current patch.
Ost late game kinda needs a buff regardless. Okw is just straight stronger all game. Even brits and usf could almost arguably be called just better all around than ost.
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