Profile of LoopDloop

People claim: do not fight Allied infantry with Tanks. It makes me wonder, what am I supposed to fight Allied infantry with then? Axis infantry and support weapons aren't doing the trick either

AT infantry. If I rushed my Cromwell or sherman at a panzergrenadier blob (which is just as mindless as zook blobs, just with better pen), I'd have a really bad tank day too. The thing is, tommies or riflemen with piats or zooks (or even just one piat or zook) get seriously screwed over in the AI department. 3 garands will maybe beat pios, and will get absolutely steamrolled by everything else, and even one zook and one bar is just really cost-inefficient. 110 muni for the ability to scratch axis armor and lose to stg volks or even lmg grens slightly less hard. With tommies it's even worse. Let's say you do bolster and have a five man squad. You get 3 lee enfields which will basically tickle lategamr axis infantry, and 2 piats that will most likely just miss a moving target if all you do is mindlessly blob them around. Not to mention tommies' out of cover debuffs which hit piats especially hard, with either -40% or -60% reload speed. Putting at on sappers or rear echelons is actually much more cost-effective and worth it.

Because you have to somehow get past the entire UKF army to steal it, while dodging or taking zero damage from the LM barrage? And retreat cuts both ways, UKF can't retreat it back to their base, but you can't either.



Because its much cheaper and requires no tech investment?

That's true but two caveats:

Comes at 8cp, and if you don't have brits T3 by 8cp (especialy in teamgames where rocket arty in general shines),there's something wrong; it used to come at 5cp (Opieop).

Also, it costs a lot of manpower, 350, which you can't just discount (yes the fuel cost is really cheap for some reason. Would definitely be ok with seeing it upped to 60-65 like stuka IIRC).

As to your first point, it often has to move pretty close to the front and is still very vulnerable to counterartillery (stukas especially). I understand that the retreat goes both ways, but a greedy landmattress (trying to get close to really punish a target) can turn into an axis land mattress pretty quick. There are occassions (mostly 1v1) where, through smart play, I was able to steal okw infantry support guns, which are a lot harder to kill with small arms fire.

u lie in every single post. i testet it: a PW need 6-8 sec from the first sound to bring a rocket to ground...the LM often under 4sec!! same range to the target.
an PW has a bigger wiping rate?? wtf?? are u kidding us? it pins unit..not more..only RNG can wipe ur units..but--this is only luck...or ur units was under 30%

I tested it too; many times with a stopwatch and both lm and pwerfer. The panzerwerfer, starting at the sound of the very first rocket firing and ending when the very first rocket impacts, took around 5.7 seconds at max range. The lm, with the same conditions, took 3.9. 5.7 seconds is a lot different than 8 ullumulu. You may have counted the time it takes for the panzerwerfer to turn its turret, which takes about two seconds. The mattress is faster, but not as fast as you originally stipulated. Also, the mattress moves much slower and thus responds to targets of opportunity, like a blob, much slower than the panzerwerfer, and also has a much longer barrage, during which it is vulnerable, and a very long teardown time, still vulnerable there too. So yes, it is easy to steal, and yes, I wasn't lying, as you claim. As to the bigger wipe rate, the panzerwerfers rockets are much easier to shoot at minimum range due to the points I just mentioned, especially the speed and short barrage time, so all ten rockets can easily land in the same place. A land mattress should really never shoot from minimum range at any important target as it will be so very easily retaliated upon, but panzerwerfers can do it easily. Also, it has a much more concentrated and time on target barrage when compared to the mattress whose first few rockets will probably fall wide of a non-blob target, and whose barrage is extended and has a slower rate of fire. So unless you're a stupid team game blobber, panzerwerfer has more wiping potential. Can't wait to hear your next reply.
Edit: spelling

While he is QQing too much, that part is actually correct. LeFH (or all other Howitzer like arty including Priest/Suxton), Pwerfer, Shock nade and Stuka Napalm have the FF in the "wrong" category.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/58531/friendly-fire/post/585387


I think most people won't have the same POV as you but most people would agree the unit is on the strong side on 2v2+.

The problem from biased points of either side is that you can't arrive to the correct answer of why something is overpowered.
LM is not as good as ANY OTHER rocket artillery in killing SINGLE squads but will shine on obliterating a zone dense of troops (hello 2v2+).

As i said before on another thread, start by replacing the extra +25% damage it gets at vet2 which is one of the biggest reason the unit ends up as a wipe machine later on during the game.

AND 0.03/0.03 Friendly fire category should go to 0.20/0.20.

Wait really? That's bizarre. And dumb.

Also, the 25% extra damage should probably get removed. No rocket arty should get that.

It would still require 8CP to be build so it could not come any sooner than now but only at the same speed or later.

The thing is that the game is balanced around 1 v 1 where the land mattress is no big problem. If a Brit goes LM he won't have enough fuel for tanks and have the armor disadvantage.

In team games you have a mate to compensate for that. The Brit can bunker in with a mortar pit + bofors to lock down 2 VPs and then barrage the hell out of everything with multiple land mattresses.

All of you have to keep in mind that Germans are much more vulnerable to Allied arty because of the following reasons:

Ostheer:

• Small Troops (Only 4 men for all squads besides Osttruppen)
  
• The faction relies heavily on its superior support weapons in pair with defensive gameplay: Mortars, MG42, PaKs, are all countered by artillery.
  

OKW:

• Designed around frontline HQs that get destroyed with only few LM barrages
  
• Extremely high costs for armor -> No AT capabilities without Raketenwerfers that get easily wiped with the LM.
  

Meanwhile allied troops (beside Brits) don't face the danger of full wipes with artillery that much. Five/Six men squads usually guarantee one or two survivors even after a critical hit. Also Mortar Pits have a huge range and can only be effectively countered by LeIGs which are wiped by LM barrages.

Don't nerf the LM into a useless state. But reduce the barrage duration and rockets. Panzerwerfer and Stuka have one single barrage whereas the Land Mattress has 30 rockets with a barrage that lasts about 10 seconds. You can't retreat your troops without the high risk of getting wiped while on retreat. Not speaking about PaKs that cannot retreat and die almost 100% because of the huge area of effect the LM has.

The LM commander is just too good. The commandos can wipe the floor with everything that is left after a LM barrage because they can spawn instantly at any building which is stupid. Make commandos appear from the glider just like the ones in other doctrines.

I'd be fine with that if gliders didn't take 30 minutes to land and the squad was 5 men and could plant demos. Commandos out of buildings is kinda cheesy tho, but so are falls. Basically the same thing with some differences in performance that even out.