I tend to go a bit of a different approach. I like to start off with only a vickers and uc and additional section then tech up and get a sniper (good garrison/team weapon counter in lieu of not having mortars) then go for AEC ASAP, which tends to come just fast enough to counter light vehicles. The reason I don't build that many sections is mostly so I can have a lot of midgame manpower to spend on commandos and still get other stuff like at guns or an extra sapper. I find commandos generally perform a lot better and are more efficient than tommies and can be absolutely brutal when micro'd right. That's really the only reason I ever even play brits and I might just be switching over to ost now anyway because stormtroopers are pretty much the same thing now but in an overall more playable faction tbh. you actually play a lot like how I do (probably not saying much as you can only play a few ways lol but I feel brits more flexible) the point to commandos though is honestly true. 2 commandos and 2 Is usually enough to cover the infantry end. but you dont go mortar pit at all? thats crazy |
against OKW: 3 IS into tech into sniper into AEC.
against OST: 4 IS into tech into MG into engis (or AEC if i see an LV). you dont get a proactive at? i feel like when i get reactive AT I straight lose the game because of that lol |
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for the real ones who play brits what are your usual first 5 units. obviously subjective and often reactionary but in a perfect game. |
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idk man, how do you glorify bofors but hate on mortar pit when they suffer the same issue and mortar pit has more range and utility with smokes. there honestly a lot of cancer in this post lol |
If I am reading your post correctly; it is normal since they increased the Aec fuel cost in the last patch or two, I do not remember which patch it was exactly. oh okay thanks for letting me know |
I'd say you have a pretty good grasp of the problems faced when playing OKW in particular. Only the Cromwell is clearly superior to the units that you face on an individual basis.
Sturms in particular beat your Infantry in almost any situation. Tommies in green cover with Sturms of equal vet closing across red cover? Tommies lose. Commandos will beat them, but not trade efficiently with them due to their higher cost.
In general therefore Brits rely on their commanders to make up the shortfall in raw firepower and serviceability. This requires you to tailor your playstyle around the commander though as many of the commander abilities have been nerfed into the ground sometimes it doesn't leave much. Artillery cover for instance in Tactical support was once your only option to even up the odds in one desperate push as per NorthWeapon's guide.
Schwerers are particularly difficult. Other than catching them whilst they are building nothing short of medium tanks focus firing them is effective. Off map artillery can help, as can an AT gun but they require protection from the inevitable shreck blobs.
OKW seem to be stronger at every stage of the game however the command vehicle with either the Royal Engineers or Tactical support can give you local superiority, as can a well placed and well defended mortar pit. Emplacements in general are a mugs game, whilst they buy you some time their destruction is inevitable due to the infantry support guns and you are just escalating to later game where OKW become even stronger.
Since the vet bug was fixed the late game hinges on wiping highly vetted OKW squads, Brenned up IS or engineers can trade well if slowly with them but only HE either in the form of armour, mortar pit or mines really gives you a chance to wipe against a good player.
Fuel is the key, if you can deny OKW fuel and escalate to armoured warfare before them then it is a win, course this entails taking out the Schwerer which is likely guarding one of the fuels and a VP...
The options you have therefore are based upon commander abilities... I'd say these are in order of effectiveness / popularity..
1. Vanguard. Allows you to deny fuel by harassing the cutoff through capping with vehicles. Also strafes punish vehicle blobs and the Croc punishes infantry blobs.
2. Mobile assault. Allows you to ensure that concentration of force is punished through the land mattress.
3. Royal Engineer / Tactical support. Allows you local superiority by use of a rather fragile command vehicle. Avre is effective as was artillery cover. Observation post allows strafes though the munitions costs inherent in this commander are huge.
OKW's real achilles heel is suppression, though no commander helps in this regard and the Vicker's legendary inability to effectively suppress often makes for rofl stomps.
If you can get to the late game then a pit and snipers are effective at attriting OKW squads, AECs at chasing down anything which doesn't have shrecks. Comets too, though they come too late to be relied upon individually.
All of which basically leaves the Cromwell. thanks for the MOAB of info dude  ive been preforming really well lately with the land mattress commander. only problem I run into is my cromwells come out really late when I go into an aec is that normal? |
It's both easier and more effective than trying to force them into playing spread out around the map. "Tactical" blobbing has it's uses but new players should realize it has it's consequences (demo/indirect fire/crushing).
OP
You might only win against a rushing Sturmpioneer if your starting Infantry section is on green cover or inside a building with enough windows (3 or more, 2 depends on damage done on approach). This means either you need to go for a 2v1 or at least 2v2 situation. Either go with your partner or wait for your Bren/IS/MG. In general, it's better that your startin IS goes to the front and secures a good position and just let your partners RE to do the backcapping.
Focus on counter-firing first. OH mortars get shredded by yours and ISG (OKW) only might get more range, when they are vet3 and with the barrage (which is not as effective as direct fire).
AT guns with attack ground (when you don't have LoS) at max range can deal with it. Smoke or screening with armor and using the flare to barrage with pounders is also an option.
Doctrinally, you can use offmaps to destroy any truck (but this is more of a late game option). Concentrated artillery (Special weapon) or Air supremacy (commandos) destroy or leaves truck at 10%.
OKW weakness: Early antigarrison (occupy buildings with Vickers/Maxims). Early light vehicle attacks. Lack of non doctrinal mobile snares or suppression. Early/Mid cost effective AI (takes time to start rolling the vet). Vulnerable when Flak HQ get's destroy as they'll lack been able to field tanks (unless Call-in but those are limited).
UKF strenght: in comparison to other allied factions, they have the tools to lock down territory but have hard time making a push early on. Bren carriers help against Kubel openings and your MG micro at the beginning should be priority. Midgame, you can either try to go for a sniper/Aec/mortar to put pressure on your opponent. In some maps, you can try to go full cancer mode with emplacements but take in mind, that it's like a cards castle. Once they break your position, you probably lose the game.
A quick Cromwell (reminder that their best AI comes from crushing) can put a lot of pressure against OKW. Don't bother upgrading nades, get the 5th man upgrade if you go for Brens on your IS. Once you lose IS, it's better to get RE (royal engineers) than fresh new IS.
For really late game, Hammer and Comets is the way to go. If facing heavies, double PIATS RE with attack ground are really effective as they will have a hard time dodging them in comparison to medium.
This is the best response i've ever gotten on this site, THANK YOU so much for your incredibly detailed post and thank you for answering every single question. also, I find the bren carrier lacks firepower in comparison to my out of cover INF squad. is that normal or am I doing something wrong |
If you have problems with shrek volks dont forget to upgrade your infantry with brens. Since im playing okw more i discovered how weak volks are against upgraded infantry. You basically need Elite squads to compete in inf vs inf mid to late game.
And mines. Since okw only has minesweeper on the expensive Sturms (which they normally only have one) mines are game winning against okw. Especially if he picked scavenge or Luftwaffe, mine every Important door = free 440mp squadwipes for 30 munitions. The ones for 60 Muni's right? |
Couple of Tips
1. Infantry Section (IS) damage is pretty consistent at all ranges, focus on staying in cover (for the bonus) and shooting at max range.
2. Royal Arty Commander is garbage, don't even bother
3. Try using your starting IS aggressively - rush for a key building/point instead of capping and dig in.
4. On most maps there are typical places OKW will place T4 building - learn them and anticipate to try and disrupt ahead of time.
5. At lower levels OKW players will place their T4 Building poorly (not behind shot blockers) - AT Guns are great then. Use a Sniper to spot or use a tank at max range to soak fire (most shots deflect at max range). Strike hard and fast with AT guns in position when he's retreated or not around and it'll go down fast. Vickers nearby to hold up counter attack is a good idea.
6. Mortar Pits can survive a lot longer if you focus on using barrage against enemy mortars attacking it. Stand Fast with Royal Engineer commander helps a lot too. Don't build MP too soon if you're not confident you can hold that ground or it'll get rushed.
7. Comets are much better than Churchills at the moment. Cromwells are generally your best bet otherwise (although Fireflies w/ Tulips can be handy vs. Tigers, KTs, and Panthers if supported). Armored Car helps immensely against Luches... which can really hurt Brits since PIATs can't hit shit if its moving.
8. General Consensus "Best Commanders" are probably Vanguard, Mobile Assault, and Advanced Emplacements. If you don't mind spending a few dollars those couldn't hurt (though you don't need them to do well by any stretch).
9. Strumpioneers do a number on IS as you said - focus on keeping max distance and avoid turning blind corners where they may be. You win easily if you force them to come to you over open ground. If they catch you close just retreat fast and save yourself needless losses. Focus them down if he's rushing you with multiple squads.
10. Garrisons (including trenches) are your friend. Vickers Vet 1 has AWESOME range while garrisoned. IS perform well in garrison also. Keep in mind you can only shoot through the # of windows - so avoid tiny shacks with only 1 window and such.
Sure I'm forgetting something but that'll get you started~
Thanks for all the tips on brits dude! it'll get me a nice head start on achieving a solid game plan! Thanks agagin for all the time you took to write this |
OKW are a good faction but they are no OP. They have their share of bullshit units/strats but so does every faction.
The fastest way to figure out how to beat them is to play as them. This will teach you their teching structure, timings, while also making you more aware of their weaknesses. It will also expose you to good allied counter strategies when you see them used against you.
You talk a lot about the 'base turret', I assume you are talking about the Schwerer Panzer HQ. All OKW trucks are extremely vulnerable while building - even rifle infantry can take them down pretty quickly. You can take advantage of this weakness in a few ways. The first is to try and kill the truck while it's building. A decent player will have the bulk of his forces defending it, but if you can surprise him with a quick push combined with some off map or indirect it can kill the truck and put him well behind. If attacking during the build isn't possible, you can at least cap the other areas of the map not being protected. You can also force him to build it in a suboptimal location by keeping pressure and maintaining control of the place he wants to build it. Eventually he will put it further back so he can get his Obers/tanks.
Once the truck is up your best bet is to whittle it down with indirect - SU 120mm mortar, USF pack howi are great for this - then finish it off with armour/AT gun while his army is distracted elsewhere. The key though is not to overcommit, and sometimes you have to just go elsewhere on the map until you get the opportunity to attack the truck. There's no sense in expending all your strength attacking his strongest point if you can't get the kill. Note that once the truck is down he can still call in a KT and the OKW player will usually try to hold out for the KT if he loses his SP HQ.
I could go on for ages about how to play against OKW but there are already plenty of community guides by better players than me out there on how to do that. Look at some of those and you'll be well on your way. Thank you so much for you in depth response. Really glad you took the time to detail everything out for me, thank you |
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