Profile of turbotortoise

My suggestions are, in the true fashion of being a balance forum warrior, extreme!
By 1943-44 the Wehrmacht in the east is mainly a defensive force trying their best not to be encircled. Their units (if they survive) should be durable with their support weapons or armor providing most of the killing power.

So, I say fuck it, overhaul the unit the veterancy, remove every offensive veterancy bonus if we have to, I don’t care if the core infantry fight like Ostruppen; replace those bonuses with something that allows their 4 man squads and the weak mid-war armor to actually survive if by some miracle they reach Vet2/3. It’s possible to win games positionally and strategically by constricting your opponent, not outright killing them, perhaps a thematic/doctrinal shift, Festung Europa, the Dnieper line, this could be a new way to look at the faction.

Short of giving the Ostheer a 300 point VP advantage to start with, I personally think this approach if tuned properly addresses many of these issues. If they could actually stay on the field for more than 5 minutes, maybe they could actually generate the resources they need to deploy the units that are functional. If it's an l2p issue about being more defensive and positionally aware then you do playing the other factions then make it fun/easier to do so.

But OK, I realise the balance team are restricted to making small incremental changes; so operating in the realm of minor fiction instead of complete fantasy, perhaps there are other changes we can make:

Let’s start with the PaK gun and Mg42: these units are necessary to meet the threats presented by the allies and they do a damn fine job at it, but if you lose even one in the mid game, your game is over. There’s very little winning chances afterwards, no alternatives, and that isn’t fun. So, I might consider giving the Mg42 grenadier rifles. Particularly with the new formation changes there are many instances, particularly around corners, where the crew will actually advance and die while the MG sets up. In the early game if the Mg42 is routed, not even necessarily lost, the Ostheer will struggle to get back into the game. If we give the actual squad members marginally more fighting ability, 5-10% more damage than they already do, that makes the counter attack, (which will usually be uphill against a fortified **cons in sandbags cough** position) that much more likely to be successful, or at least the chance at retaking the ground in a more timely fashion, more likely.

I would make the same argument for the PaK gun, it needs to be either more durable or more readily available/cheaper, but OK, if we aren’t willing to make these less punishing if lost, then the soft counters need to be made more viable:

I would like to see the StuG improved, 4 hits to destroy a T70 is prohibitively poor; if it needs to perform like an SU85 in vision mode: poor rotation + acceleration, with an emphasis on positioning, like the tank destroyer they're supposed to be, so it isn’t chasing light armor across the map, then that’s fine but the StuG needs to be more credible.

Speaking about StuG’s I would also like to see the StuG-E reverted. It’s a joke. It’s worse than a mortar half track. Move it to T3 and buff it so AT LEAST it becomes a deterrent against things like Stuarts, T70’s and perhaps tone down it’s RoF or otherwise the AI capability to something akin to the 222/M20.

Move the Puma to T2 and balance it to fight armor about equally as well as a Stuart.
or fuck it make the Pak43 viable, maybe that gives us enough field presence in the mid game until a Katy/Calli rocks up.

This would allow some other doctrines a bit more play time, players could decide which alternative they would like to use to meet the allied threat.

Infantry wise I think the reason we’re seeing so many Jager squads is that the Ost need a combat squad that isn’t ridiculous and can be relied upon. I propose giving PzGrens 5 men and Kar98’s with an option to go StG’s at T4, something resembling guards-, and perhaps reverting the VSL changes but make the vet bonuses defensive, and/or make the upgrade Vet2 dependent. Vet squad leaders require a vet squad, makes sense.

I would also like to see the 250 more viable as an equivalent early game shock unit, allow it to hit the field earlier, and give the Ostheer something like the flame bus that they could maybe put PzGrens in (my go to shock unit atm) or if that’s a non-starter for gods sakes make it’s MG42 worth a damn; remember when the Kubel could supress? No, maybe that doesn’t need to be done, but it could fulfill a similar role, exchanging HP/Dmg instead of MP bleed, pushing it forward to help your grens fight against infantry in directional cover.

OR when we think, “grens are better at long range!” when you’re fighting over a point it’s not often you can actually find cover at that range; if the 250 and 251 provided heavy/vehicle cover that could be an interesting way of improving durability, requiring some level of skill. This combined with reinforcement perhaps gives Ostheer the field presence they need, and if they survive, maybe late game durability, (consider adding a defensive aura at vet 2/3)

These are some of my suggestions, feel free to shit on them, discuss or whatever happens these days, but please don't tell me that the Ostheer are fine.

Alright, here goes, my first balance thread also known as my coming out as a wehraboo or whatever.

I haven’t seen Ostheer get shit on this badly since snipers were allowed in scout cars, or perhaps since 2016 where the only reliable opening was delaying with PaK's until a Tiger could bail you out. Something has to be done, so instead of that, I'm going to post about it.

In the interests of being thorough I didn't think that just my own experience in playing and coaching recently would be sufficient to make my argument so, again 'cos I'm old and harken back to the good old days, I tried to do my best SiphonX impression by tabulating top games that I spectated over the weekend.

My criteria:

• Players must be evenly rated and rated in the top 150
  
• I only reviewed one game from the same player
  

Here was the outcome:

Opening	vs.	Map	Outcome
Jager Infantry → Default	Urban Defense → 4 Scripts	Kholdny East	Crushed
Festung Armor → Default → 666 Variation	Recon Support → M20 → Stuart	Bayeux East	Crushed
Spearhead → Default→ Double Pak / Mortar HT	Guard Motor → Flame Car → Guards → Maxim??	Ploiesti North	Good win!
Spearhead → Default	Guard Motor → Flame Car → 2x Scripts/Guards	Ploiesti South	Great win!
No Cmd → 3/2 Opening	Guard Motor→ 4 Scripts	Bocage East	Crushed (Early-ish Resigns)
No Cmd → 3/2 Opening 444 Variation	No Cmd Lt. M20 → Cpt.	Langres North	Crushed (Early Resigns)
Spearhead → Default → Mortar HT → Double PaK	AB → 50. → Stuart	Kholdny West	Played well, could not overcome the triple cap or triple Sherman, VP line says Crushed
Jager Infantry → Double Pio/42 into PzGrens	Mobile Assault → 3 IS/UC	Bayeux East	Incredible win, use of camouflage and mines was impeccable
Storm Docrtine?? → 2/2 → PzGrens??	Heavy Cav → Double RE	Faymonville South	Shocked that this was a Top 100 game, both sides played like ass. Wish I could unsee this. Also, Crushed.
Jager Infantry → Default	Recon Support → M20 → Stuart → Mortar?	Mill Road West	Outplayed fairly badly but an awkward USF build allowed them the keep the points close, resigned after losing PiV
No Cmd → Transposed into 3/2 + Mortar	Lend Lease → Double Ass IS / Mortar	Kholdny East	I thought an equal game where Ost resigned possibly early after losing 2 squads
Jager Infantry → Default / Sniper Variation	Lend Lease → 4 IS / Bolster → M5/M10	Nexus East	Great win, managed to base pin their opponent in focusing in the south.
Jager Infantry → Default	Commandos → 4 IS / Mills → 2x Commandos (??)	Bocage North	Solid win against a suspicious opening
Jager Armor → Default → +1 Gren +PzGren → T4 variation	Armored Assault T2 → IS2 Variation	Bayeux East	Among one of the greatest games I’ve ever witnessed live. Base pinned the Sov player down to 100 pts by 10 minutes. Still lost, had no late game power. Besides going T3 instead I don’t think they could have done anything different, and against a more common opening I think they still may have struggled.

*default I consider to be 3 Grens + Mg42

A 0.357 win%

That’s fucking brutal.

The Ostheer were being absolutely crushed with most games lasting < 30 mins and Ostheer suffering a VP deficit of at least 300 points, often much more; and in only two of those wins would I say the Ostheer player was ever comfortable, (one game against Augustine being ridiculous and playing a terrible opening, I’ll let you decide which one it was) and the other was against the Brits as well, a faction possibly even more broken. Their close wins usually involved some novelty that their opponent wasn't prepared for, or they were against openings that were far from optimal, not as bad as the Brit games but still pretty garbo. (who is going flame car and back teching into a Maxim at 12 mins???)

I challenge anyone to analyse this game, the last in the games I reviewed, and point out what the Ostheer player should have done differently or how they should l2p:

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  维京师

  °Markov.-

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  An incredible game.

  by: turbotortoise map: Unknown

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They played their damn heart out, I was really impressed, they played nearly perfectly for 40 minutes out of 44. They were brilliant in the early game managing to base pin the Sov player and in the mid game they pulled out every trick, rifle nade mines, vet 222 spotting scope/werfer synergy, attack ground Brummbar... everything. Yes they made some late game blunders, they even got bailed out by a Panther that took 58 thousand deflections, but so did the Soviet player, moreso I would say, and good faction design and balance should not require a >100 rated player playing +98% accurately.

I had planned to watch more games but after that I was too tired... I also tried to view some >800 rated games for a more balanced perspective but… they weren’t very instructive.........

I'd happily do a replay review if you post it. It's too complicated for me to watch a video, unless it's an old replay or something and then well, we'll see. xD

Hahah, will do.

thanks for tuning in last night I'll be going live ~9:30gmt. Going to start with DSM's game and then look this one over, should be fun.

Lost control of a Volks squad half way through a game. I could select the unit but the hotkeys and UI wouldn't work.

Never seen this before, I think I was constructing sandbags and issued a Shift+Retreat order, changed my mind to just retreat and although I could select it I couldn't issue any orders, it got eaten by a land mattress lol.

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  turbotortoise :)

  IULIUS

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  No UI Bug

  by: turbotortoise map: Unknown

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Also, does the 221 not have any skins? Or is that a bug, can't remember.