I already face this doctrine 9 out of 10 matches I play vs Ostheer. The last thing it needs is a buff.
Pro tip: This is because Ostheer is a underpowered faction with garbage commanders, Mechanized is good because it gives you better early/mid game.
Should we also nerf all the good soviet doctrines to |
Nice one!
Commanders better than Recon:
Airborne, Rifle, Infantry, Mechanized Company.
- increased sight for Rifles. What's the point if you have pathfinders?
- Pathfinder. No fighting abilities. No scope to snipe. Only barrage for 140 muni. Useful agasint OKW' trucks or vs shitty opponent who is not watching his units.
- Greyhound - the only unit that makes this commander a bit useful
- Recon.
- 2x Paras + decrewed 57mm. At 9CPs your unvetted Paras are going to be useless vs vetted Obers or Falsch.
Even Mechanized is better - it's quite awesome by the way.
-Dodge - hard counter for Kubel, great unit to flank support, drive behind lines and catch truck during transformation.
- Pull back vehicles and get 75% resources. Best ability of this commander. Did you hard countered kubel? Pull back Dodge, get back resources. Do you see 251 Flak? Hard counter with Stuart or take AA truck. Late game is coming and Sturat has no place any more? Pull it back and take Sherman. Did you wiped few squads? Panther is coming? Changing for Jackson. Is ability is amazing.
- Halftrack with assault engi. The worst ability but still damn useful. You can get mines, flamers and still pull back truck to get back resources.
- Recon
- 155mm barrage. Very quick, perfect agasint OKW' trucks, you don't need to get close like IR Pathfinders.
Right know it's my favourite commander cause you can afford to get hard counter all the time and then just pull it back.
If you are going for Recon, you are going to rely on Greyhound. If you lose it, it's probably GG.
If your Greyhound won't finish the game before 15min it's gg.
It's all about killing your enemy as fast as you can.
And stop saying about this "amazing" Priest. Stuka is better, RNG unit, after first shell very easy to avoid and in 1v1 Priest has no place. Only team games.
You can't have path finders every were and you only need to be in cover/building for you Rifles to get the sight bonus, which is a big deal if you combine it with rear's in FP's and rifles supporting .50 cal's. The IR Artillery comes in faster than the 155 barrage and does more damage, while also having less spread, and it comes from a mobile unit that can cloak.
The greyhound can easily stay viable late game with it's speed and sight, it just becomes more of a support vehicle that you keep with your infantry and tanks to help clear out blobs. The two paras and 1 AT aren't obviously optimal, but if your floating MP instantly getting 2 airborne squads and an AT is a pretty big deal.
Mechanized is literal garbage, Rifle is as I said, a noob trap that exists to trick people out of their munitions, fuel and MP. And your constant insistence that the priest which is a mobile howitzer is terrible basically means you have never, ever used one. Don't sit it in your base, sit it behind your front line and there is 0 chance he will be able to avoid the shells 100% of the time. Also just force a retreat and bombard his Medi HQ and you can wipe several squads easy.
USF is a micro intensive faction, but if you play well literally the only thing that can stop you is a KT. |
I like how this thread is no longer about the actual topic, but trying to figure out ways to shame the people arguing ITT lol.
And yeah none of my replays are from my AT's, which play Axis because that's what my friends want to play. As far as my skill goes I'm not an expert, but I adore debating and discussing things. Logic and reason trump raw skill every time.
Anyone in this thread is free to add me on steam and play with me if they want, but I will mock the hell out of you for being so petty that you challenge a person to a 1v1 because they made you upset on the internet |
Considering there is a wealth of AT guns/mines Relic decided not to put in the game for ~reasons~ it would be very easy to make a 42-43 faction work. Less focus on tanks, more focus on infantry/support weapon combat.
Also Howitzers, lots and LOTS of howitzers. |
Airborne and rifle are the only viable commanders
Rifle can work it u get lucky with flame throwers
But airborn is the best. if u get atleast 2 muni caches and only upgrade ur para's. U can spam scotts and para's to focus on OKW's BS OP infantry.
Their armor wont be a problem cus u saved enought muni to use p47's 3 times over.
Then again, a AA HT will wreck this strat since it kills both planes on first pass
Rifle gives you: a easy to avoid smoke barrage that only damages infantry and doesn't actually kill them, flamers (which are very RNG based), and a fast way to burn away all your MP. To top this all off you get the Easy Eight, and if regular shermans are getting you nowhere neither will the easy 8.
If you can micro, a Scott/Jackson combo is far better.
Infantry is far more viable, you get excellent indirect in the form of the priest, sandbags, and very powerful 360 suppression LMG's you don't need to pay to unlock. |
Yeah no.
Riflemen receiving obersoldaten upgrade via Infantry Company, and obviously Elite Rifles - vet rifles at bat and EZ8's.
The 900 mp is extremely impractical (especially since the at gun is put in for lols), the recon flight the same level of crap as the major's - the forward sighting is barely an advantage, USF is going to get m20/other scouting unit that sights on the move. I&R is good for destroying OKW trucks... But thats it unless the enemy likes to keep everything idle.
I only see this commander used, if ever, only for m8 canister nuke. Very rarily anyone uses anything else in this commander. Its only good for one unit. Because it is so "bad" i see people who dont overuse canister nuke to fail when they get rolled over by armor AND infantry ( which only former mentioned two commanders can actually overcome both at the same time)
The IR comes in extremely fast (compared to most artillery barrages), and does a insane amount of damage, anything caught in the circle of it's bombardment radius WILL die. The 900 mp may be impractical, but it's honestly just there in case you have a MP float and want some more AT. The forward sighting is amazing advantage that can better allow you to predict enemy pushes.
The canister nuke can ruin an opponent in the early game, as will the IR artillery. Make use of the fact your pathfinders can cloak.
Infantry Company is a noob trap, the flames explode to often and still only let you dig players out of builds. In any other case a BAR is better, and the Easy Eight is just a better sherman, which isn't what you need in dealing with infantry or armor. You need a Jacksons and Scott.
Infantry, Airborne, and Recon are the best USF commander IMO. |
Useless unit in team games and useless commander.
I meet this commander only in one game and greyhound die in two hit from shrecks, before can shot.
It's the second best USF commander in the game behind airborne. The IR artillery call in is the one of the best and cheapest artillery call in's. They greyhound is a squad wipe machine that's also fast. The 2 airborne squads + AT gun are also very nice. The sighting you get for your riflemen makes early game recon extremely easy.
Really there's not a single thing in the commander that's "bad", I find myself taking it a lot in 2's as USF. |
These poor USF players, won't be able to spam their heavy tanks anymore.
IS2 spam is one of the most powerful allied strategies, and with Jacksons backing up your IS2's you can basically roam the map destroying everything. KT's simply aren't spammable and Tigers aren't as good for taking on medium armor as an elefant.
Limiting to 1 heavy tank isn't going to make medium armor any more or less viable, and what mediums do you think OKW has huh? |
I wonder if all the players saying "Only 1 Heavy" realize that hurts allies far far more than Axis |
Bullshit. they DO counter EVERYTHING
Like I said, in theory a Volks horde with shreks counters the medium and light armor, the Obers the infantry, and the Panther is their to provide AT support/snipe enemy tanks vehicles the less mobile Volks cannot get to.
In this hypothetical infantry horde you have around 5-6 Volks squad which is 36 pop cap, if your banking all your AI on Obers then that's about 3 which is 30 more pop cap (we are now at 66), adding in 1 Panther in we are now at 82 pop cap, which means you can build 1 more Panther if you want to, but not a KT.
And the cost of that army? 1410 MP for the 6 Volks, 1400 MP and 80 fuel for the Obers, and if we don't include the cost of the Schwer (because I put it in with the Obers) 490 MP and 175 fuel for the Panther. That's 3,300 MP and 255 fuel! That is a very big investment by that player, and those 400 MP each unit? Useless against tanks and die easier than Volks do to indirect fire. That 175 fuel unit? Useless against AT guns. Those Volks? Your going to need to pay 540 munitions to get those shreks out as early as you can! Hope you don't need to use any grenades any time soon!
The hole in that build is so giant I could drive an IS2 through it. Not to mention it's blood expensive when half your units can literally evaporate with out barely any warning. |