No offence man, but your lack of actual playing time warps your perceptions here again. IS-2 might not reliably oneshot Paks, but it decimates them and all infantry if not with the main gun than with the DSHK. Ostheer, in practical terms, has no truly effective means to deal with ie. an IS-2/ISU outside of its own, doctrinal heavy armour, especially the Elephant. Barring that, the Tiger can function to anchor your Pak line, soak up damage, and kill infantry, but Pak/Tiger on ZiS/IS-2 fights almost always end in the Soviet favour in the long run since they simply have better survivability and better means to kill the opposing AT guns. TWP is a strong ability obviously, but its nowhere near enough to put that fight on an even footing. BTDT and bought the t-shirt too often. The OH Panther, while indeed nondoctrinal, is a noshow in 1v1 anyways.
The large AoE on the IS2's shells make wiping PaK crews fairly trivial. These days the Elefant is a much better investment in any mode higher than 1v1 and maybe 2v2 than a Tiger.
Not to mention Katitof ignored that the fact the ZiS has only 10 less pen at all ranges than the Pak40 but much more utility. |
Just
Where I said I want to remove Panther?
Schwerer should get MG, that's all.
I dont assume perfect timing. 11min Jadgpanzer or 16min Panther is something quite common.
And why Puma+jadgpanzer is a bad combination?
Puma to counter early-mid game vehicles and then Jadgpanzer to counter everything.
But.. Im assuming perfect timing, so what about your Major faster than Schwerer? Isnt it assuming perfect timing without M20 or AA?
The part abour AE and RE is just amazing. First you ve said that AE repair faster but now you are saying that you dont have a numbers?
Rusing Panther = 2 Obers squads before, which melt infantry so I dont see how OKW can do a pudding agasint blob since OKW blob is the most powerful.
The Puma and Jadgpanzer is a terrible combination, mostly because your not going to have any counter to heavy tanks or massed mediums, or infantry hordes. The Puma's viabilty in any mode higher than 1's falls off hard as the game progresses because the shear amount of infantry AT on the field, and then the Jadgpanzer is only 40 fuel cheaper than the Panther but significantly worse in the mobility department.
Your assuming perfect timing, or just pulling minutes out of your ass because it takes 11 minutes at 23 fuel per minute to get enough for a Schwer and Panther, and 23 fuel is pretty fucking optimal. But nobody ever builds their first HQ the minute it hits the field, and rushing a Panther to deal with no allied armor is silly when shreks exist.
And if your making 2 Obers before your delaying your Panther pretty heavily, since if your getting MP drained then spending 800 MP is a pretty huge investment, and if you want to float that much MP your implying you spend no MP on BG HQ retreat point and got very few volks.
The Schwer should get an MG? Why not just make the flak cannon not pen medium tanks? |
KV-2 proves otherwise.
IIRC the KV2 is one of the rarest tanks of the war, only 300 were ever made. So it's inclusion makes about as much sense as any of the other rarer tanks like the Sturmpanzer or Ostwind. |
Umm... there would be absolutely no change in the unit list currently.
The Soviet faction as it stands now is a dead ringer for late 1943 offensives to the Dniepr (No T-34-85s or ISs, but SU-85s and SU-76s in plenty). It's kind of something that Relic did kinda well, the units are all right year wise, its too bad they chose a time period where the Germans were getting their heavies in numbers and the Soviets were still trying to get their new hardware off the drawing board (Early version of the T-34-85 were appearing but not in any great numbers).
OH are exactly similar. It's the WFA armies that have put the time frame forward a year.
Arguably, the most balanced time period of all the Eastern Front period (gameplay wise I mean, it'd be the time where I'd set my CoH2 game) is 1942. The Germans are rolling out the PzIVs and StuGs with the long barrelled guns which can punch through T-34s handily, but at the same time the Soviets can do the same thing. The only outlier is the KV-1 but the long barreled guns were already causing problems for it at that point and KV-1S which had lighter armour was also rolling out, which further improved the German's chances. There are no Tigers or anything to really screw up the balance either.
Plus, 1942 is the do or die year for both sides.
Its a shame Relic screwed it all up so much, 1942 has way more options. Afrika and the Far East would both be balanced and effective options because the super heavies aren't there and even then they don't have monster guns or anything like that.
But instead, to please the fanboys (because Axis tanks are only cool in 1945, when their fuel is being siphoned off to run other tanks) they had to go for 1945 and make half the possible factions in the game utterly useless.
There isn't any army in the game based of off 45, and your mostly correct about the 43 time slot, but Soviets have a fair amount of early war units they didn't see much action into early 44 such as the KV1 (as you mentioned) and SU-85, but then Ostheer still has the short barreled call ins in the Command PIV and StuG Ausf E.
Honestly I would be very happy if they made the KV1 call in a commander tank, gave Soviets the regular one as a tier unit, and took out the SU-85 and put in the SU-100.
Also give Ostheer the Jadgpanther as a call in maybe.
And you mentioned conscripts being a joke, but the Soviet Union was using conscripted soldiers right up until the push into Berlin. |
Nerfed penetration? Try solo it with Sherman HE, T34/76 or SU76 without ground attack.
How 40-40-80 fuel price for teching is same like for any other faction?
If it's so important building, why everyone builds it so far away from the base?
Flak base has nothing to do with defending your fuel. It had to do this when OKW income was 33% and 200% from point with trucks. Now it's different but the flak is still here denying everything CoH2 is all about.
How faction which can get Jadgpanzer around 9-11min in 1v1 has problems with fuel?
Or 16min Panther?
Or Puma+Jadgpanzer around 16min.
OKW has so many call-in infantry thet they don't need Obers in every single game.
I love when you skip some parts of posts many many times, like here for example.
SP as engi...
Schwerer as basebulding made for a purpose that does not longer exist...
Negating capping which CoH2 is all about...
Oh, and AssEngi repairs excatly same time like RE so dont say anything about game mechanic cause it's not your first flop.
They did nerf the penetration and just saying they didn't doesn't make it true. It used to be that you could kill a sherman fairly quickly, but it was nerfed to were you could do damage and then back out, repair, and come in and do damage again.
See, the problem with you Is I don't think you actually know what you want, you want the Schwer removed so OKW can't lock down an fuel or a cut off (claiming that such a need is out dated), but then you want to get rid of the units in the Schwer that people want like the luchs and panther.
The timing you also bring out in your posts is also insane, because you assume a perfect scenario in timing, and not to mention the fact that a Jadgpanzer + Puma is such an insandely retarded combination that it blows my mind you think because you can do it then everything for OKW would be peaches and cream if they had no fuel or Schwer.
And I can't actually look up the repair time on Ass Engines versus RE's (and if you do know were I can find said repair times that would be wonderful).
If anything, OKW one arrives way too fast.
If your opponent rushes a Panther he's not going to be able to do shit about your infantry, so go hog wild with a blob supported by AT guns. At max fuel income at 23 fuel it takes 11 minutes to get a Schwer + Panther and that's assume absolutely optimal conditions.
EDIT: And if you think your magically going to stop a blob with Fuss or Jaegar well, your in for a nasty surprise. |
Actually, it does explain it.
In theory they can drop a model every single volley they fire, so it makes sense that they will win against raw DPS, because their own damage output isn't calculated by raw DPS value, but resolves around the crit.
If their Kars do 16 dmg, they need to hit each model TWO times, then G34 model will simply instakill it with the crit. Unless you are using double BARs or proper assault infantry(shocks, thompson paras) its better to stay at range to minimize probability that G43 will kill your models.
Also lol at usual Alexzandvars bullshit, as wrong as usual.
At vet 0 Pathfinders preform better, but as Jaegar vet up they preform better, this is a fairly common theme amongst a fair amount of OKW units. I fail to see how I'm wrong when you can just look up the unit values and the received accuracy buffs each one gets.
Or is this one of those because I didn't say Jaegars are the best thing since sliced bread I'm an axis apologist? |
Hardly the point since behind every 2-3 volks is at least one Ober squad with heat seeking MG-34 rounds.
Then your problem is with Obers, not Volks. Nobody actually think's Obers are fine, but the reason they exist is because if you went BG HQ you need Ober's to deal with the blob.
Many people have suggested multiple fixes, not really an issue of "how" any more but "if". |
Personally, I'd find the big red "delete" button and delete the Soviets out of the game and then start of scratch, giving them actually good basic infantry (conscripts in 1943-44 is an insult), getting rid of the cheese (get that M3 out of my sight!), giving them effective AT, actual good lategame tanks (though ones which would come out later that German ones) and the ability to have non-doctrinal tube artillery (the only faction which would be able to)
Me thinks you wouldn't want each army unit list to be based entirely off of 43-44, because that would necessitate a pretty big change to the unit list of Ostheer as well.
Honestly you could put 42-43 factions in the game in the form of the Africa front forces and still have it work if you balanced the units right. |
To be honet, I was thinking about them as support squad (maybe 2 squads) behind Volks and Obers but after this replay I think they can be used as mailline infantry as well.
It's weird, when compare to Pathfinders.
Jaegers can solo Volks but on the other hand Pathfinders are dying like flies.
To all Axis lovers:
No, it's not nerf Jaeger thread. It's thread about Jaeger utility.
Jaegers are more useful than Obers (unless you get IR StG 44's) if your facing an enemy on an urban map and he's spamming indirect like a motherfucker, due to the fact you can snipe enemy weapons times fairly reliably AND call in units behind the lines.
2 Jaeger supporting and sighting works wonders, and they are great for cut off capping and booby trapping enemy points. They also are fun because you can sprint + use infiltration nades to wipe a weapons team horde before he can suppress you!
Jaeger are worse than Pathfinders when they are vet 0 but at vet 5 Jaegar have -60% received accuracy! So once yout Jaegar start vetting up they will be kicking ass pretty hard. |
For the same reason why 280 mp assault engineer squad have it?
Ass Engies repair faster than regular engineers. So no, they don't have 170 MP repairs. And neither should Assault Pioneers.
Garden me... T3 was designed like that, because OKW was getting 200% income from 3 potions where trucks were converted. This feature no longer exists in game.
It can kill HE Sherman, it's equal to T34/76 and can melt SU-76.
What's more, COH is about capping points. With battle is on the right side, you send 1-2 squads to cap left side. But there you find T3 and the whole capping system is dead.
They kept the Flak Gun on T3 (And they actually nerfed it's pen a few patches ago) because it's the most important OKW building and without it you can't get access to your most powerful units.
Placing it on a cut off or fuel point allows you to spread your forces and engage the enemy while keeping a reliable fuel income, which is vital for OKW more than any faction due to the fact OKW has fuel prices as high as any other faction, but lowered income.
While at the start of the game you might not feel the pressure, later on if you haven't had fuel for a while you will just get pistol whipped when you have 1 Panther or none and your facing off against 2 shermans or some Scotts.
Enginners? Really? Cause when I said that vetted Engis cannot have better vet than pure combat Paras, you said they are not engis.
And they should cause they have insane DPS and utility in the early game.
Stuka needs health nerf.
Kubel on maps like Minsk Pocket is OP like hell when microed well.
It forces you to go for M3 or M20.
How the garden T0 cheapet unit can force to tier?
Sturms are effective because they are expensive to build and expensive to reinforce, and they wipe easy thanks for being a 4 man squad. They are seriously not an issue, if you need faster repairs as soviets make a second engineer, trust me it's quite good. I always 2 engineers so I can spam demo's/mines faster anyway.
1. I belive OKW and OST Panthers have separated files so changing OKW wont touch OST.
2. That's why OKW should get Stug III instead of Luchs or something else. Pure mid-game unit which can help to survive.
3. I dont get your point about doctrinal Tiger or Ele... IS2 is doctrinal as well and you want to counter it with stock units?
How often do you see Panther from OST player? 2/20? Cause in 1v1 it's like 1/40 games.
Nerfing the fuck out of the OKW Panther isn't going to fix anything, and nor is replacing the Luchs (which is a good tank) with a piece of shit like the StuG III Ausf G going to make anything better for anyone.
If you make the Panther shit people are just going to spam Shreks harder, if you get rid of the Luch's people are going to spam Obers harder.
This isn't a game were people will make subpar units just so you can roll them over because ~reasons~. |