Thank you, Relic!
The changes seem promising, and I'm elated that there still more changes yet to come.
Counting down the minutes until I can go home and try it... |
Hi,
Is this possible to get email notifications on answered threads ???
I've been wondering the same thing. Or at least a notification upon logging into the site. |
How do you guys counter the early kubel.
I've tried:
- Swarming it with conscripts from 3 directions. Failed. RNG made so many shots fail to penetrate its armour
- Getting an M3. Failed. Just drove into its base covered by flak guns
- Maxim. Failed. Failed. RNG trolled.
- Rushing for a ZiS-3. Failed. First shot missed and the game's up
- Getting early AT grenade. Failed. Can't even get near it.
- Cap the other side of the map. Failed. He just drives over.
So what do you guys do to fight the kubel? It's baffling me.
M3, hands down. If you've driven the kubel back to its base, then you've effectively negated it. Otherwise, it's dead.
I used to detest kubels, now I can handle them without too much trouble with the M3. The trick is keeping your micro tight while other enemy infantry units are also thrown in the mix. I always have my hand on the reverse hot key when using any vehicle, but especially the M3.
Also, I prefer not to put an infantry unit in the M3 early in the game. Having dismounted infantry around the M3 helps provide it cover as it retreats or gives chase, and discourages enemies from focus firing on it.
My biggest problem with this approach however is that it locks me into a T1 build. Expert players know how to quickly counter it. |
ZiS gun is the answer in my opinion.
It's barrage ability is surprisingly effective against blobs. It's also easy to bait a blob, so just barrage a little ahead of their approach and let them walk into it. Obviously you'll need a couple other units around to help out. Even if you don't kill much, oftentimes part of the blob will retreat.
The same trusty ZiS will also really do most of the damage to heavy tanks. Use with "Mark Vehicle", "Button" and the "AT-Gun Ambush" abilities, and watch their tanks either retreat or die. However, all these abilities are doctrine dependent. |
It's an incredibly useful ability in my opinion.
I use it against armor that is as strong or stronger than what I have in the current engagement. It pairs very well with "button".
I like to mark target first to help me tilt the scale of the engagement. In the meantime I hold off on button but position Guards closeby. I button a short while after-- either to prevent escape, or to allow myself to escape.
Even if poorly timed, oftentimes Mark Target will cause a cautious player to retreat his vehicle and the plane will provide valuable line of sight that may warn you of an ambush or incoming reinforcements. |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu3PflvT_sA
That was brilliant, thanks for sharing!
I'm starting to realize how effective well-managed Combat Engineers can be. Their lower cost means you can field more and capture more points, more easily repair your m3, plant mines on both sides of the map, and misdirect enemies from your snipers. |
Allright, guys, now tell me why everyone use M3A1+penals instead of M3A1+CE? CE have the same flamer, but can repair it.
I agree. I build Penals, but I always put Combat Engineers in the M3A1 because of what you said. Especially right after the first engagement. I send the M3/Engineer party bus to decap enemy points and punish lone units.
I'll throw Penals in an M3 when I need to send them to satchel a machine gun bunker or garrison. Brown uniforms, vans, and satchels? UPS delivery, right to your doorstep. |
First off, thanks for the reply!
Well I am much more a Starcraft player than CoH player and what I have learned from there is that it is better to do the same thing well than to the "correct" counter poorly. This is why I try to stick to something quite similar in all games. Also I don't follow this religiously but it's more of a guide to reduce the amount of thinking I need to do ingame.
Now to your build:
You don't get any conscripts? How do you have enough infantry to keep a presence on the map then? I totally agree with M3, I always get one with penals in and it almost always turns out paying for itself. Especially against Kubelwagen. Sniper could be good but I have not yet been able to make him work, maybe this is something I should practice. But with my build I could switch second penal to sniper, then I can take care of their anti-tank weapon team from afar allowing m3 to be more aggressive. My next problem has been early armor, it seems with the way I've been playing I have to retreat much off the map if I see early armor(puma or flak) and wait til I can push with a ZiS but even then ZiS is slow and their vehicles fast so still hard to get back the map presence. How do you deal with this?
I definitely do build more infantry after what I mentioned. Usually more penals or conscripts, sometimes another sniper. And if I don't start with T1 build I just mentioned, I definitely go with the standard 4 conscript build (but not against OKW).
When I go with this build, I combine it with Guards to help against early armor. Pumas and Scout Cars get spanked by Guards, but most other anti-infantry vehicles (Panzer II, Ostwind) will give you a really hard time. Guards got nerfed in a patch not too long ago, and ever since then they've been lackluster. But pair them with a ZiS and you'll be perfect. Draw the vehicle to your ZiS and once the vehicle takes a hit and realizes its mistake, snare it with button and let your ZiS and Guards keep punishing it.
Snipers are great if you know how to use them. They enfuriate OKW players and they will rush some kind of light vehicle or ability to take revenge; so be ready to always move them back after your shots and have other units protecting them. Try to set up some kind of ambush: an AT gun, units lying in wait, etc. |
I'm no pro, but here goes.
First, that's quite a long build order. For me that indicates a rigid style of play (definitely something you grow out of after a while). Maybe that's part of the problem?
As Soviets against OKW I start with T1 as well and start with:
- Penal
- M3 Armored Car
- Sniper
The M3 really hurts them: it can take down a kubel no problem, it can cause Sturmpois to retreat, and it can destroy an overly bold supply truck (especially with infantry onboard). The trick is to keep your distance at all times and not get too cocky--it's a fragile unit. Also, roll it out as soon as you can to punish early rushes (something OKW players love to do). The only reason I don't roll it out before the Penals is because I need another sturdy infantry unit to capture.
The sniper annoys them to no end and will help you force a quicker retreat. Also needs careful micro. He's an easy target if you don't move him and good players will charge him immediately or fire a rifle grenade (instant squad wipe for a sniper).
Downsides of this approach.
- High risk
- Weak early game map control
- Delayed anti-tank capability
- Usually forces you into a commander with Guards and late game heavy armour call ins
It might be better to delay the sniper and get another infantry unit first, but this method works great against aggressive players that like to rush to your choke point or fuel with a kubel and sturmpoineer combination. |
Why talk about nonexistent things?
Good point!
Has anyone had any luck pairing Guards with Penals? Is it effective to button with Guards and hurl a satchel charge at an Ostwind or Panzer II? Obviously armour and an AT gun would be better, but in absence of those things, is this a reliable counter? |