Profile of GiaA

I have more 1v1 soviet games than you and have held a higher rank with twice the playerbase than you have now. So you can take the rank card and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

You discount all the easy axis early game victories as matchmaking issues but you do count the times you are able to easily hold half the map against FHT as if this is isn't the result of the same matchmaking issues. "Lol"

Soviets have some good units but you and Giap just ignore the other half of the equation, the axis troops. Sure 7 man conscripts are good but so are Obers and Pgrens that wipe your units with bundle nades regardless of doctrine. Sure SVTs are good, but so are G43s fussies tearing through your units. Etc.

Most of the stuff you guys are listing is also mutually exclusive, which creates the illusion that the faction as a whole is better than it is. Like saying how SVTs beat STGs and T34/85s beat P4s.

What you're saying about ignoring one half of the equation is true. In that sense the title of this thread is misleading. Just see it as a coh2 polemic. If you don't get the Katitofs and Vippers of this world going with a provocative edge a thread like this will most likely just fall by the wayside.

Basically the point of this thread is that if you strip away certain strong Wehrmacht doctrines that most people desparately want to see fixed (primarily Osttruppen, but also 5men = the other half of the equation) Soviets end up in an extremely dominant position that renders them op. I stand by that. As for OKW there is no other half of the equation because that faction is just straight up inferior imo, so with regards the the OKW matchup the title is actually accurate.

You mention PGs and Obers specifically. PGs are op due to their timing and vet. However once you take away Osttruppen they become much weaker. A slow gren opening doesn't snowball nearly as well into PG into LVs. It still might be necessary to nerf their vet but I'm telling you much of their opness is dependant on Osttruppen.

As for Obers they are just not that great in 1v1. At the point you get access to obers (they are only good with LMGs) you have to have 4 inf squads already at the absolute minimum and you'll hopefully be in the process of getting a P4 so you'll rarely have a lot of spare manpower. Obers are also particularly inefficient vs Sandbags unless they have STGs which is obviously a problem against Soviets.

I'd nerf section enfields a bit (probs aim time), buff BRENs a bit and make them 50-60munis depending on buff, nerf section medkits a bit (rate of healing would be good), give sections snares (sappers can keep theirs too), take away trenches and give them to Sappers, nerf Comet's AoE and scatter a bit, make Cromwell 300mp 90-95 fuel, buff FF, Centaur and Churchill.

Faction would probably be more straightforward and less frustrating this way. Currently most people can't play Brits properly and suck, while a few truly know what they're doing and can be extremely frustrating to face. Brits play like no other faction, which is why most people hate them.

Edit: Remove that vet smoke on retreat from commandos. So stupid.

I actually think the current bren balance makes the game more interesting cuz it's an actual decision whether to go brens or not rather than a no brainer upgrade. Lee Anfield nerf only under the condition of a jäger, 5men and osttruppen nerf. Why have snares on sapper AND sections?

I agree with buffing FF and centaur. I don't think the churchill needs a buff as long as those two get buffed. Cromewell is fine imo. 90-95 fuel would be insanely strong. Just look at the T34. I wouldn't nerf the comet. It's the closest thing brits have to a "heavy" tank. Nerfing it and buffing cromewell like this would just make it obsolete. If anything I'd slightly increase the price to match the performance although it's already super expensive which is why I don't really think it's overperforming at all.

This is the official sequel to my Soviets OP thread which is widely regarded to be the greatest CoH2.org thread of all time. [citation needed]

This is primarily about 1v1. I consider doctrine abilities a full part of the game because in practice they are. That's why I don't consider "but it's doctrinal" arguments valid most of the time. Only if you have to make significant trade offs when picking a doctrine does this argument count.

I. Design

1. Brit design is hated by almost everybody. This skews opinions on balance which should be viewed separately from design. From what I've observed in the last five years the majority of both players and forum users only stop complaining once brits are clearly the worst faction and seize playing any role in tournaments. I am guilty of this myself.

2. Putting aside balance for a moment I don't even get the recurring hatred towards the faction. The brits more or less have the same problems as other factions in terms of design.

Examples:

a) Why is tommy spam worse than volks, rifle or con spam? Lately even wehrmacht inf spam has been on the rise.

b) They have fairly linear tech but so do other factions. The vast majority of wehrmacht games play out as T1->T2->T3->T4 (optional). The only common alternation is a tier 1 skip which is mainly made possible by commanders at least as disliked as the brits (Osttruppen, Assgrens). Besides, Wehrmacht was already universally seen as the most well designed faction when T1 skip wasn't a realistic option (Mg in T1) and T4 was pure meme material (old Brummbär).

c) Why are somewhat op commander abilities (the various admittedly cheesy arty strikes, strafes, global buffs) worse than the sheer ability to break the game of 5men, Osttruppen, Jägers, WC51, ISU etc?

d) The only uniquely terrible aspect about them is sim city. But this feature has been nerfed into obscurity.

3. I would actually argue that the hammmer/anvil dichotomy in their design makes for more consequential and thus more interesting tech decisions. The only problem is that it arrives too late in the game.

4. Also due to their global upgrades brits have the most (but still not nearly enough) ways to spend fuel outside of more vehicles which is something CoH2 factions are lacking in general.

II. Balance

1. Tommies are not that great against the OKW early game. In terms of winning engagements decisevely OKW is actually superior. Tommies are mostly good at stalling at long range while trading efficiently. Tommies are however amazing vs Vanilla Grens.

But this is where the sniper comes into play. Brits have no reliable counter against a sniper early on and they are at a clear disadvantage in Sniper vs Sniper situations due to the 222s spotting ability. Later on the mainline infantry situation sort of inverts itself. Tommies become amazing vs Volks after getting 5men and bad vs Grens who get their own 5men upgrade. But once again the axis mainline infantry's weakness gets compensated. This time by Jägers who are pretty much uncounterable and absurdly strong vs tommies.

2. Their tanks are not very cost efficient. The Cromewell is ok but not amazing. The Firefly is bad due to its slow speed and rate of fire. A tank destroyer that can't chase needs to be strong in other departments like the JP4 (Armor, insane vet etc.) or the SU 85 (sight). The turret only really becomes relevant once a tank can give chase which is not the case for the Firefly. The centaur is mediocre at best because it's also very slow and doesn't have any ability to threaten light to medium tanks like the ostwind due to worse penetration. The comet is probably the best late game option but doesn't really do anything too amazingly and has very late timing. Churchill is a pure damage sponge but since you don't really have anything to follow it up with it ends up dead in the water most of the time.

3. Bren -> AEC -> Valentine is probably op. The timings just work out too perfectly. The AEC timing is problematic in general but it needs to be considered that the AEC has the lowest shock value of all light tanks due to its weak anti infantry capabilities. It's also inferior in the frequent direct matchup against the puma and has quite a high cost because you effectively pay both upgrade+unit for one AEC.

The assumption that the 222 is useless against brits because its timing is nearly matched by the AEC is just false. The 222 just doesn't work as a shock unit vs brits and needs to be used differently compared to USF or Soviet matchups. Without the AEC intervening the 222 is actually more potent vs Brits because Tommies don't have snares so it essentially ties the AECs attention and as long as the 222 doesn't die because there are fausts/pak close this is a reasonably cost effective situation for the Wehrmacht player.

4. They lack any mobile indirect fire. They get a shitty mortar in a mediocre doctrine and shitty rocket artillery in another mediocre doctrine. Compare this to Panzerwerfer, Stuka, Calliope (much better doctrine and much stronger arty), Katyusha, Pack Howie, Wehrmacht Mortar or ISG. They don't even have a high AOE anti infantry unit like the Brummbär to compensate for this. For this reason double (or even triple) Pak is incredibly strong vs brits.

5. They don't have any anti building tools. No flamer, no flame grenades, not even a regular mortar. Really all they can do is straight up destroying the building in question with an arty flare.

6. On a sidenote: The Puma is absolutely amazing against Brits since they don't have a lot of snares and rely on the AEC which is very unlikely to win a direct matchup against the Puma.

I cant stand on your hypocracy about USF. You are just parroting "USF STOCK İS FANTASTİC!" narrative. NO! It is not fantastic or any good. You axis fanboys nerfed jackson,killed sherman,nerfe to dirt to pershing and still parroting your holly narrative as "usf stock is good", "USF got best mainline infantry" "USF get free units when tech" kind a npc narrative. Yes you guys are just npcs programmed to destroy one of the games faction. And you guys did it. I am playing Britts and their call in tanks, or just playing with OKW.

Shermans are wipe machines, jackson is by far the best TD in the game, scotts are uncounterable in some teamgame situations, Pack Howie is broken, AAHT has incredible timing although it's hard to pull off against 222 pak combo, 50cals are the best MGs in the game, best stock heal in the game, you get 20 more pop cap than your opponent easily. Bar rifles do well against STG volks, lmgs, and g43. The only problem US has lies in the OPness of 5men grens, Osttruppen and PGs.

Idk man, your absolute dismissal to almost everything that has been said and continue to discredit yourself you may find that you will be ignored or people wont take an interest.

You actually play the game (like me) so consider yourself acknowledged.