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Thread: S-mine launchers10 Jan 2015, 12:14 PM Is this not already a vet ability for the Sturmtiger? In: Lobby
Thread: Cyanara's Wehrmacht Overhaul9 Jan 2015, 12:35 PM Jump back to quoted post9 Jan 2015, 12:03 PMCyanara Ok, definitely some residual hate for the flame HT from a few people I genuinely don't recall when they were the meta, and can't even remember when they were last useful, so I am confused as to how AT guns, mines, and AT nades couldn't handle them. If it was a problem, it sounds to me like the flame damage should have been nerfed rather than the t3 solution. I've personally never found a use for such an expensive upgrade on such a weak unit at T3. The soviet version at least has range with its upgrade. At any rate, it probably wouldn't matter so much if either of the other 2 T2 units were a bit better at their roles. It's most likely a concern at this point because Wehr players just wish something was effective against infantry and flame HTs seem like an intuitive solution. At any rate, halftracks really do serve a useful purpose anyway as mobile reinforcement points kept just behind the frontlines. Flames are probably best as a defensive feature to help keep the fragile unit alive. I can't really picture a situation where 120 munitions wouldn't be better spent elsewhere by that point of the game though. T2 flame halftrack was one of few solutions to the old godmode shocktroops (and a deeply satisfying one) but yeah, I agree with Rollo it's in a good place now. It's still very useful at roasting stray squads, or quickly forcing off people harassing flanks. Munitions cost might be too high for how late it comes though. As for other suggestions: Grenadiers Sandbags would be nice (I would say for Pioneers but they are overworked as it is) at the very least it gives Grens something to do whilst capping. I think LMG is a tad too strong, whilst unupgraded Grenadiers are pretty tame so it just becomes an essential crutch. I'd like to see LMG42 nerfed slightly, cost reduced, whatever, and vanilla Grens performance increased slightly to compensate. Would this make them too strong early game? I don't know. HMG42 I think it's good. Really good. If I steal one as allies it's a happy day for me. But that said - as Ostheer, I find it's not always that good at staying the allied horde be it conscripts or riflemen, even when supported. The problems I see are: - Vanilla Grens don't offer much disincentive to flanking squads, so supporting infantry don't do much beyond maintaining suppression on squads already caught by the MG. - Either target acquisition speed or tear down/set up could use a tweak - Halve grenade range for suppressed units (would also go some way to keep grens from wiping maxims at long range easily) 222 Scout Car Kind of meh compared to M20. I think the autocannon got a little overnerfed when they reduced cost - 55 munitions is a lot for what you get (especially when your grens are in need of their 60muni crutches at the same time). Otherwise it's a cute little unit, the main problem is that it needs to be kept at range from infantry, but it's weapon isn't that good for ranged damage. Panzergrenadiers Have never seemed to justify their cost/reinforce cost. Panzershrecks are nice but again, munitions cost and not so great on your most expensive infantry. If only you could get them on a durable 5 man unit that costs half as much to reinforce....nah, that would be a terrible ide- Oh. Flame Half-track I said stuff about this. It's good, maybe a little too expensive at 120 munitions for the time that it comes. Definately not the ultradoom death shock unit it once was, but frankly I don't miss units like that. Ostwind Not sure what can be done for this. It's nice I guess if you see an AA halftrack or T70 and have a fuel lead (when would this ever be the case?) but if you're playing for keeps there's not much reason not to get a Panzer 4 instead. Panther T4 has sadly passed on into myth and legend, never to be seen again. There's always team games I suppose. 105mm Howitzer Before artillery got nerfed, it fired twice as many shots with half the cooldown and could basically sustain a constant barrage with veterancy. This was bad, but it has now been nerfed to the point of being useless, so does need a buff. Any buffs would have to be mirrored on the Soviet ML-20 which is also kinda crappy. Ps. Teching costs. I often find Ostheer a chore to play early game on many built up maps, which is a shame that the faction with the least restrictive teching is at more of a handicap in very specific circumstances, but you can't really do much about it despite the inherent flexibilty in the faction's design. In: COH2 Balance

Thread: S-mine launchers10 Jan 2015, 12:14 PM

Is this not already a vet ability for the Sturmtiger?

In: Lobby

Thread: Cyanara's Wehrmacht Overhaul9 Jan 2015, 12:35 PM

9 Jan 2015, 12:03 PMCyanara

Ok, definitely some residual hate for the flame HT from a few people I genuinely don't recall when they were the meta, and can't even remember when they were last useful, so I am confused as to how AT guns, mines, and AT nades couldn't handle them. If it was a problem, it sounds to me like the flame damage should have been nerfed rather than the t3 solution.

I've personally never found a use for such an expensive upgrade on such a weak unit at T3. The soviet version at least has range with its upgrade. At any rate, it probably wouldn't matter so much if either of the other 2 T2 units were a bit better at their roles. It's most likely a concern at this point because Wehr players just wish *something* was effective against infantry and flame HTs seem like an intuitive solution. At any rate, halftracks really do serve a useful purpose anyway as mobile reinforcement points kept just behind the frontlines. Flames are probably best as a defensive feature to help keep the fragile unit alive. I can't really picture a situation where 120 munitions wouldn't be better spent elsewhere by that point of the game though.

T2 flame halftrack was one of few solutions to the old godmode shocktroops (and a deeply satisfying one) but yeah, I agree with Rollo it's in a good place now. It's still very useful at roasting stray squads, or quickly forcing off people harassing flanks. Munitions cost might be too high for how late it comes though.

As for other suggestions:

Grenadiers
Sandbags would be nice (I would say for Pioneers but they are overworked as it is) at the very least it gives Grens something to do whilst capping.

I think LMG is a tad too strong, whilst unupgraded Grenadiers are pretty tame so it just becomes an essential crutch. I'd like to see LMG42 nerfed slightly, cost reduced, whatever, and vanilla Grens performance increased slightly to compensate. Would this make them too strong early game? I don't know.

HMG42
I think it's good. Really good. If I steal one as allies it's a happy day for me. But that said - as Ostheer, I find it's not always that good at staying the allied horde be it conscripts or riflemen, even when supported. The problems I see are:
- Vanilla Grens don't offer much disincentive to flanking squads, so supporting infantry don't do much beyond maintaining suppression on squads already caught by the MG.
- Either target acquisition speed or tear down/set up could use a tweak
- Halve grenade range for suppressed units (would also go some way to keep grens from wiping maxims at long range easily)

222 Scout Car
Kind of meh compared to M20. I think the autocannon got a little overnerfed when they reduced cost - 55 munitions is a lot for what you get (especially when your grens are in need of their 60muni crutches at the same time). Otherwise it's a cute little unit, the main problem is that it needs to be kept at range from infantry, but it's weapon isn't that good for ranged damage.

Panzergrenadiers
Have never seemed to justify their cost/reinforce cost. Panzershrecks are nice but again, munitions cost and not so great on your most expensive infantry. If only you could get them on a durable 5 man unit that costs half as much to reinforce....nah, that would be a terrible ide-

Oh.

Flame Half-track
I said stuff about this. It's good, maybe a little too expensive at 120 munitions for the time that it comes. Definately not the ultradoom death shock unit it once was, but frankly I don't miss units like that.

Ostwind
Not sure what can be done for this. It's nice I guess if you see an AA halftrack or T70 and have a fuel lead (when would this ever be the case?) but if you're playing for keeps there's not much reason not to get a Panzer 4 instead.

Panther
T4 has sadly passed on into myth and legend, never to be seen again. There's always team games I suppose.

105mm Howitzer
Before artillery got nerfed, it fired twice as many shots with half the cooldown and could basically sustain a constant barrage with veterancy. This was bad, but it has now been nerfed to the point of being useless, so does need a buff. Any buffs would have to be mirrored on the Soviet ML-20 which is also kinda crappy.

Ps. Teching costs.

I often find Ostheer a chore to play early game on many built up maps, which is a shame that the faction with the least restrictive teching is at more of a handicap in very specific circumstances, but you can't really do much about it despite the inherent flexibilty in the faction's design.

In: COH2 Balance