My vote is on Naval Infantry.
SU-100 would do to Panthers what the Jagdtiger does to T-34-85s. Funny at first but horribly OP. What does the German have as a hope for winning if all their heavies are smashed instantly?
Naval Infantry could be a long-range infantry unit upgradable with shortrange PPS's or something else. Would fit the faction, be an intresting unit, add something to meta and not mess up balance.
Tough I have to agree the idea of adding a Zampolit or Komsomol member as a person with somekind of aura intrigues me.
You are greatly exaggerating. The SU100 would probably perform like the Jackson or a little better. It would also suffer the same drawbacks as other non-turreted tanks. Obviously there will be balancing to fix things. Don't know why people assume that the state of the game would be the same if units are added.
While Naval Infantry/Marines would be cool, the faction will still suffer if they are not AT based. Soviets already lack heavier nondoc tanks. Their AT is lackluster unless you choose the right doctrine. This nullifies the viability of other Soviet commanders.
I also agree with Cardboard Tank that the absence of the T34/85 as a nondoc tank is inexcusable. |
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Well I am still playing, but I am getting more cynical and frustrated everyday |
I don't blob and I have never played starcraft. I was just moving my troops up the field to flank and the IS2 came up unexpectedly after we already kill 2 at once just before that.
The picture shows a big clump of infantry... |
ALlies are the sacrificial lamb  |
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I agree that imbalances in 1v1 can become huge issues in big tema games. I think it is time to figure out if OKW are OP in 1v1 and 2v2 matches |
Swapping the T34/76 with the T34/85 can't happen. It would mean that the allies would have a stock unit that is better than an axis stock unit.
*Giggles* and we cant have Allied units being better than Axis units
Silly that T34/85 isn't an upgrade off of the T34/76 though. The bigger gun upgrade for the Sherman was present in COh1...
I do like the change however, I think it would solve some of the call-in issues. You could call-in an inferior tank or choose to upgrade buildings and tiers to get a superior core unit. Having more freedom and choice for the player is always a good thing. |
It is true that Axis are overpowered in 3v3 and 4v4 games (not in 1v1 and 2v2). However you all need to keep in mind if you nerf OKW on the basis of team game balance you will essentially throw balance out the window for 1v1s which would be disastrous. This would directly impact the competitive nature of this game and the 'esport' value. Like it or not, 1v1s are the most competitive game mode of any RTS and is often the best place to base balance off (as statistically the best players play 1v1s and can thus uncover the true balance issues as oppose to the L2P issues).
CoH2 is unique to other RTSs due to the emphasis on strategy and RNG. This make balancing 1v1s unable to correctly carry over to other game modes.
I believe the actual cause of this is in 3v3s and 4v4s resources are shared thus inflating the income for one particular person. This creates incomes which would be impossible in 1v1s. Rather than simply nerfing OKW - which is a rather simplistic approach with really bad follow-up consequeces for 1v1 - we should look at trying to replicate the 1v1 situation for teamgames. What I mean by this is reduced income for teamgames (which has already been suggested in this thread). This would mean the early game and mid game would last longer which would allow allies to properly apply their strengths in teamgames and would prevent Axis rushing late game super units and spamming them. This would also not impact the balance for 1v1 as you are not directly nerfing the faction but rather changing how the game mode works so the balance decisions from 1v1 play are actually carried through to the other game modes.
Thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts. I do agree with the points you are making.
I am not sure however, that reducing resource rates are the way to go. Axis will still dominate the ltae game, although it will take longer to reach. I still think that is unacceptable. All factions should have an equal chance at every stage in the game. Right now, i see OKW as the most problematic faction due to their very strong units. I really think nerfs are the way to go, but the challenge is determining which are appropriate to the larger team games. |
I will take issue with my friend the wombat about nerfing fuel income in 4v4
That's not going to get the 1v1 and 2v2 crowd playing 4v4; instead it is most likely to upset existing 4v4 players.
One of the reasons people play 4v4 because they like seeing heavy units on the field in usable numbers
The problem with that is not that people are spamming heavy tanks, or that they are able to have more than one:
The problem is that OKW have really good late game units, this means that they can make efficient use of the pop cap and are not bleeding fuel or manpower to replace them.
OKH v Sov is and was fine.
Both have viable late game options if it turns into a slugfest and the game goes that long:
IS2, ISU-152, T34-85 v Tiger, Elephant, Panther
OKW have very strong, very durable mega units - and in team games they will go long enough to get them out, especially with caches and lots of salvage. The K-T, strongest tank in the game, isn't even doctrinal*
Worse to fight them you are reliant on:
Off map call in
Artillery (very map dependent, done it on Ettlebruck, not anywhere else)
Swarming them with inferior units
The problem with swarming them, is that is no such thing as a drawn battle for the allies. You HAVE to win.
You fight a KT with 5 T34s and you take it to 40% damage and lose 3 of yours.
You just lost MP, Fuel and Vet you won't get back and all you have achieved is to give Vet to him and driven him off the map for a bit
So you should try to stay in the fight and kill him, even if you win this might mean you lose 4 out of 5 tanks and you are not much better off than before because you have nothing left to exploit.
Or you lose all your tanks, and he is only damaged which means you are screwed.
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I don't really want OKW to be nerfed late game, I would like the others to be more competitive against them
That might not be possible though.
That said, I really think the K-T should be a capstone 16CP call in for Elite Armoured and not available to everyone in every game.
Make the elite IV-J the standard non-doc tank.
Well put Van Voort
The only think i see as being too strong in the OKW late game is How ridiculously overpowering their infantry can be, both volks and obers
Volks with 5 combat bonuses clearly overperform compared to other Units with only 2 combat bonuses and useless vet 1 abilities. Tone down the Infantry than re-evaluate the faction afterwards.
OKW have a plethora of powerful late game units like the Obersoldaten, Panzerfusiliers, Falls, and Jaegers and vetted Volks with Schrecks. These units do amazing damage to either infantry or tanks. The KT is nearly impervious to Allied At except ISU and IS2 and Jacsons. Schreck blobs just destroy Allied medium tanks, which make ripe picking for Jagdtigers and KTs.
I find OKW to be a ticking time bomb. They do not have a weak early game anymore now that Kubel has been buffed. They don't seem to have many weaknesses. Once they start blobbing up those Obersoldaten, schreck blobs, and armor, it becomes a pain to deal with them.
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don't do it! It is just propaganda!!!!!!!!!!! |
As most of you will know, EGX in London kicks off tomorrow, and it seems Quinn Duffy and Greg Wilson will give a sermon talk on the new Campaign on Friday at 4pm.
I highly doubt - though I hope I am wrong - that balance issues on 1v1/2v2 as against 3v3/4v4 will be addressed
Bummer  |
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