Yo buddy, doctrinal or not SturmTiger 1000 pen is nutz. Yolo. That original list said a lot your just trying to derail it with the non doctrinal part. 1 unit with good pen is insufficient for USF. Unless you like P47 picks every game.
Please read both of my replies, and try to understand the points i tried to make.
(small hint: one of those points was the flaw in creating artificial lists with self defined thresholds - even put that in nice bold letters...)
Thanks.
P.S.: not sure why you feel the need to help out your fellow bear with posts like this. It does the complete opposite.
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It was to make a point, that you can always use some random value and start comparing in terms of "the grass is greener on the other side".
As you say yourself now: many commanders, many units, and flexibility. One game you will face Sherman spam, but next time you will fight against Jacksons, M10s, or a bunch of ATs - you see where this goes?
USF has flexibility, it just isn't easy to use, not really apparent, and certainly quite frustrating to use sometimes.
As US Forces there is only Jackson, and since the first minute, you know that you will see them at some point in front of your JP/Panther/Tiger.
That's two different factions you're facing there, one unit is doctrinal, and none of these are an issue for USF.
With current meta it feels like i see M10s more often than Jacksons. E8 just doesn't have a good trade off anymore.
So how would a Pershing help the faction AT wise? So you can fight a Panther with your own "Panther"?
That's it? Fine, add the damn thing... late game gonna be the same though.
(my point being: nice to have thing, not necessary, and certainly no real help with the faction overall)
edit: miragefla has some nice ideas there, but that should be another topic IMO |
Fixed for you are you said NON-DOCTRINAL units. Dunno Zis 3 and pak 40 were doctrinal 
Pzzzt, now the whole point is gone 
(you're right ofc... )
Edit: should have maybe said "can achieve 300 pen without using any specials", just to make it even more biased. |
http://www.coh2.org/guides/category/1/beginner-guides
&
http://www.coh2.org/guides/category/8/-oberkommando-west-guides
Desired game mode might be important, and where you struggle.
General hint: don't a-move a huge blob, even though it's an appealing thing to do. |
It's not about fixing anyting. It's about late game AT options.
Units with pen 200 or higher:
Wehrmacht: Pak40, Pak43 Stug G, Tiger, Panther, Elephant.
OKW: Raketen, Pak43, JP IV, Panther, Command Panther, Sturmtiger, King Tiger, Jadgtiger.
SU: ZiS-3, SU-76, SU-85, KV-2, IS-2, ISU-152.
USF: Jackson 
...
And now let's make a list with non-doctrinal units that can achieve 300 pen or higher:
OST: 
OKW:
SOV:
USF: Jackson 
I really like those lists, they just take everything out of context, and completely ignore faction design & gameflow.
It's not about late game AT options, it's about giving USF a break from baby sitting. Throwing in some doctrinal "heavy" tank won't solve anything.
A Pershing won't solve you investing quite some apm into basic tasks (which is a lot for lower skill ranges - the majority of players), it won't solve your bleed, it won't solve repetitive tasks you have to do, and it won't solve certain weak commanders. Just gonna add another unit that's either useless or borderline OP, while the overall faction is still a mix of fun and... frustration.
USF AT is awesome btw., but it's tough to use them with their full potential.
Well, just my 2 cents... adding some Heavy won't solve anything. |
Yep, I know it's not terribly difficult to kill, I just didn't want to play passive against OKW and let them reach late game to easily, so I wasn't all that keen on the maxims, so I figured a quick ZIS shot will take care of them quickly and let me move on with my game, and the described results made me wonder. Granted I have no idea about playing soviets as this was my 2 game after the break since the Western Armies launch window - so I figured just go with a lot of aggressive infantry play (the game ended with him punishing me with a king tiger, which I had large problems countering - was hard to take away the fuel on langres).
Spread out a few Cons, and bum rush it - some people even go as far and tech for AT nades (personally i don't think that's needed). Flanking works best, Kubels rear armor is only 2 instead of 4.
Maxims work as well, Zis anyways - except you get such a bad case of RNG, but even in worst case it will drive away.
You can also use the mentioned M3 to attack it frontally, and chase it to death.
And last but not least, there's also plenty of early doctrinal stuff that can kill it super easily. |
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It's a vehicle, with a rather small target size, and therefore will be missed more often than larger vehicles.
Six times in a row is just insanely bad RNG. |
ZeaviS: if you want realism, go join the army
Anyways, if you need input on how to defeat Heavies in team games, we got a nice section for that:
http://www.coh2.org/forum/109/replay-reviews
(btw.: 55m game, and they even had a top10 4v4 player - no shame in losing) |
I have just told you, how basic builds counter everything USF can bring into the game, in the message you have quoted
And you can counter everything they bring up - that's how RTS work.
In a game like COH2 there's always different solutions, especially in 2v2, so don't hesitate to post a replay. |
Except that wouldn't work, since the map design makes it so hard to flank especially the fuel point, since it basically has 2 entry points, both with red cover roads. Putting two good microed mg's there with a single unit of some kind of infantry to cover the gaps, makes it impossible to storm it. And every try is = rifle bleed. Also smoke grenades are not this useful on this map, since once the enemy can see the large assaulting force coming from all sides he can quickly reposition his infantry to that area, stopping the assault. Bunkers also batter USF badly. Also the bottom fuel point, requires few units to defend, which allows Axis forces to allow quite a lot of forces to fight in the north or mid, and the narrow roads of the map, make it especially hard for paper USF armor, because of varioust AT units.
For USF artillery:
Mortar Half track is crap
Pack howie requires to be in the same range as Ostheer mortar to be effective, and it get hard countered by OKW stuka, and may be countered by ISG
Scott's range is too small, which makes it vulnerable to Paks/Pak43s/raketens/schrecks, also it comes after 120 fuel major and costs 75 fuel, by the time it rolls on to the battlefield Axis have some surprises of their own, considering they were holding on to the fuel point for a long time.
And finally priest which is just overpriced and is not that effective, for 480 mp and 115 fuel, it would mean sacrificing major and a lot of MP. That also would mean you would be relying on AT guns, which get hardcountered by Stuka.
As for OKW, if they place their med HQs near the fuel point, it makes all the assaults for the soviets pretty hard, meaning they can push off soviets pretty early, as well as the fact, that the size of this map allows stuka to safely counter Katyushas and ML-20s. And overall it's pretty fair game for Soviets vs OKW, and depends on what spawn they got, and how well OKW players turtle.
You have to make decisions, constantly bum rushing the fuel point shouldn't be one of them.
And of course your units can be countered. You sound like anything the enemy builds can't be countered, and only you will be, which obviously is not how it goes.
Please upload a replay. |
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