Having a big noisy plane that is destroyable that drops your stuff in a way they can still die and be spotted from miles away while costing ... 5CP? Shouldn't come with a premium of over 100MP. You have commadners that can call in units that fills in roles you don't have usually making them more versatile at no extra cost!
I actually don't know if the airplane can be shot down, never seen it happen. Regardless, the fact that the paratroopers are worth 336 mp (28 * 6 * 2) means that the "callin" cost is 54 mp. That personally seems excessive when you look at any unit that is callinable from buildings 210-(20 * 4 * 2)= 50mp. partisans
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When you take the beacon into consideration, this means you add another 290MP unit that you had to infiltrate just to have your very generic 390 MP unit be at full strenght while crewing it's uncrewed fully priced gun. See how the cost starts to add up pretty quickly for nothing very special?
Also if you have to refill your squad after drop and then buy them an upgrade, that's one hell of a long time to be at full fighting strenght in a small and fast game like this one. Giving your oponent plenty of time to find you and flush you out.
For the gun i am fine with the 57mm, just make it crewed on the drop. It's too much of a flaw for the job we need to accomplish to be taken.
I agree completely, the way relic created the airborne commander seems a bit half-baked. It would be nice if the base parasquad cost was 400mp, but it came with a free weapon upgrade (ie. thompsons). As it stands, the airborne take far too long to "organize" to actually be useful as a raiding force.
Another thought would be giving the paratroopers' upgrades a speed buff, so they upgrade fast enough to be useful. (Or what about a glider callin that can act like a forward weapon rack?) |
That sounds fair enough, but don't forget that this thread was about the overall abilities of the airborn commander to act behind the enemy line, set up a defensive position and probably run disruption raids.
Any uncrewed gun really is a pain in the butt when dealing with that kind of stuff as it cut in half one of your squad.
I think the idea is that you call the airborne in next to a beacon, allowing you to crew the gun if you landed out of combat, then reinforce the crewing squad. I feel like the airborne commander should put the 37mm gun in, then allow that AT gun to spawn with a crew, for the same price as the 57mm without crew. I think the gun itself should be similar to the soviet 45mm AT gun, fast rate of fire with low penetration. Another change I believe should be added is a slightly lower cost for any units being para-dropped. I don't think the opportunity cost is worth the chance of the squad being spotted as its coming in and losing members due to a random outhouse. 390mp for a para squad is a bit excessive, as the squad itself is only marginally better than base rifles unupgraded. |
I don't think it should reinforce the front line by design but more as a side effect of being to drop anywhere. I think it's fairly safe to say, by now, that everyone dosen't whant something that overlaps rifleman and only helps reinforce your frontline/meatgrinder but something that really allows you to set-up positions behind the enemy line while running disruption operations. Or something along that line. Agree?
I agree that I would much rather have the ability be used for an actual behind the lines invasion by airborne, I am merely stating that in the current iteration it is too risky to drop an uncrewed AT gun behind enemy lines, especially if you are playing vs OKW and don't want to give them a 57mm.
I would suggest making the ability drop 2 of the para squads with random weapons, and a special "light" AT gun (37mm ?) with the ability to retreat. It could also work if the ability dropped 1 squad of anti-inf paras (thompson or m1919) and 1 squad of dual recoil-less rifle paras. (obviously with a cost reduction) |
I agree with most of your post and suggested them before for the airborn company, but the problem with the plane is that it's a giant giveaway as to what you will do and that you currently have a unit infiltrating (which you probably don't whant them to know).
For the realistic part, you could see it as them being dropped close to the drop zone (just outside the map) and the zone they whant to pin point is on the map.
That's how i'd see it, because i'd hate to tell my enemy with bells and whistles that i am airborn and currently iniltrating a unit.
Well, the other "infiltration" would be to allow them to infiltrate directly into buildings, which is not going to work because they can hop out and drop arty immediately. Spawning from any side of the map is an interesting idea though, that would be nice to see for a pretty high opportunity cost. |
Pathfinders are fine, they deliver deadly arty barrage that doesn't have huge delay as major one they could be 4 man squad thou.
I would prefer if the pathfinders were a 2 man unit with a German sniper cloak or with the ability to para-drop from a plane. This would make more sense in terms of what pathfinders did in real life, and would give them the added utility of actually being an infiltration unit. |
With some newfound knowledge of the Recon Support Paratroopers, I think these guys are going to be rather good.
The Recon Company's 8CP ability drops down 2 Paratrooper Support squads in addition to an AT gun. These Paratrooper Support squads lack the Timed Demo Charge (rather useless, truth be told, aside from a heavy cover crater), and in exchange are able to lay down M7 Light AT Mines.
So I've learned to get the I&R Pathfinders, sneak behind the lines, plant down as many beacons as I can before I get caught, and drop down the 2 Paratroopers + AT gun. If the enemy hasn't noticed, I just prance around mining every nook and cranny while fighting some battles and getting reinforcements around the Beacons.
I'd suggest you start using them if you've somehow gotten the Recon Company Commander, they seem a lot more useful than Airborne Company's Paratroopers.
I've been using the Recon commander, and this is one of the best abilities in the game for me. Just a few things, its a 7 CP ability and I don't think the paras lay mines. That being said, I still find the ability best used to reinforce your front-line troops because the AT gun is kind of meh at behind the lines action, and usually just ends up being a free AT gun for your enemy.
The Recon Pathfinders are an amazing unit in 2v2s (haven't tried them in 1v1) because you can infiltrate towards an OKW forward base and lay a barrage on it when the enemy retreats. I have wiped quite a few squads with is, and the artillery counts towards unit veterancy, so I have been able to get the increased sight bonuses quite fast.
All in all, I find that the recon commander plays more towards the strengths of what the airborn commander should be. It uses support units meant for behind the lines action coupled with a useful frontline reinforcement ability. Thats my two cents, what do you guys think? |
yea i suggested the 2 man camouflaged squad too, 4 man is a pain to hide and those 2 carbine dudes are pretty useless.
They should probably also be 0 CP as it was proposed for the normal pathfinders. These come with a 140 MU artillerie barrage and 20 MU fake one. The 140 won't be used any time before 2 CPs anyways and the fake one won't see much use since people would expect it's fake at this point in the game. Really no reasons to keep it at 2.
In any cases, some of the problem from this commander are related to the one of the airborn (which i made a pretty extensive post about).
The worst part is that the I&R pathfinders are a 3 man squad with no "sniper crit" and actually comes out at CP 3. (The commander highlight lies) |
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Honestly, I got this commander, and I find it great in 2v2 games where your ally has a katyusha/ other long range fire support. As the name of the doctrine states, it is a "support" company, and I find that the M8 greyhound (especially at vet 1) is a great unit to scout defenses with, but I think it needs the hold fire ability. One other small change I would like to see is a revision of the I&R pathfinders to be a 1-2 man squad with the ability to camouflage out of cover for short distances like the ostheer sniper. Thoughts? |
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But see, the problem is that they are a dedicated AI squad that can spawn in any neutral building that only cost 290 mp. They are cheap enough that you can deploy them from any neutral building in the middle of a fight to flank the enemies for only 290mp. Units that spawn from buildings usually have an oppurtunity cost, this is why fallshimjaeger and Paras cost so much. At the very least Jaegers need a price nerf (increase). You cannot clais that they are bad because they have an exorbitant reinforce cost (same as fallshimjaeger) if they are able to turn the tide of any engagement you drop them in. |
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