Paks are the things that get the ubiquitious pair of Sov. Snipers takes two shots to decrew, mind you, we are talking the double sniper build here. Now, even if you were to face IS-2 for instance, Schrecks dont perform too well against it since they have trouble penetrating its frontal armor, (plus its Mg is just murderous) while Paks are susceptible to flame arty. Three things in the Ost arsenal qualify as heavyweight AT: Tigers, Eles, and Panthers. All of them struggle against 85s plus mark target.
The Tiger cannot stand up to the IS-2 one on one, but can contain it with Pak support. The Ele reliably counters the IS-2, while the Panther is about its equal in AT performance, however the tech/opportunity costs make it not really viable in 1s and 2s unless you go Luftwaffe OP....eh supply doctrine. Trying to fight the IS-2 and in fact 85s without one of these components will not get you anywhere, believe me, I've tried. Stugs and PIVs are to the IS-2 (and 85s) what 34/76s or regular Shermans are to Tigers/Panthers...easy pickings.
This is all true, but remember, you also have access to the riegel/ teller mines. T34/85 rely on flanking to deal damage reliably to panthers and tigers. Tellers not only slow them down, they more or less spell certain doom for them when paks are nearby. IS2 is handeled pretty easily with teller + pak, and if he goes IS2, you shouldnt have too much trouble killing the snipers with the 221 early game. |
iirc it has a flat 90% chance to kill any model it hits. doesn't matter where the models are or what they're doing, it's a flat %. cruzz posted in another semi-recent thread that ended up on canister, maybe it was his own.
and yes, if it was changed to a normal weapon you could give it a high chance to miss against different covers. which makes me wonder; i assume it's pretty good anti-garrison? i've never tried it though.
Thats a good idea, I'll try that. I also think we should test an idea for making the m8 have the same maingun as the stuart, but with an optional pintle MG upgrade for it. This way, we could nerf canister, without making the vehicle redundant, since its biggest problem is the hard time it has reliably killing infantry. |
^Why not add grens to the T0?
I think every faction should have it's baseline infantry tied to t0 rather than T1.
The problem with this would be that it would negate conscript starts from the soviets, as you could get the same amount of grens out 30mp slower. Currently, the only advantage cons have is numbers, so I think that this would just end up screwing balance. Not to mention that this would allow for easier t0->t2 starts for super fast lmgs for your grens. |
It has some impact. But i really am annoyed that some people act how that vg somehow come with vet 5.
If you see a vet 5 volks then its YOUR mistake. it means you have been feeding the volks squad a healthy diet of tanks as they have not other way to level up to vet 5. remember a VG with shrek and vet 4 has less AI then a vanilla gren squad.
I wouldnt really consider it your mistake, it only takes about 10 hits with the panzershreck to vet to vet 5 from vet 0 I believe. This means that as long as you keep your volks in a place where you know they will hit armor (ie protecting the flank of an AT gun or in an ambush position), you can vet to vet 5 pretty quickly.
I think that the best change would be to stop volks from getting vet from using the panzershreck, as this would balance them a bit. If it takes too long to vet them up normally (which I doubt from my experience), then maybe increase the amount of vet they gain from being attacked. This would also reinforce relics design of them being defensive, screening troops. Maybe set to 66% XP from attacking, and 33% XP from taking damage. |
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Hmm, is it possible to make the canister shot work like the flmaethrower in reverse? Give it the ability to gib squads in negative or no cover, but make it increasingly useless vs. units in cover. In green cover from the front it should do next to no damage. |
Played a game recently. Just got my first AT up..a PG squad with shreks. I had 2 PG squads (one without shreks) both in green cover behind a destroyed tank. Cannister shot before I even fired 1 shrek shot killed 6 of the 8 guys including the entire shrek squad.
:/
If you know you are facing an M8, dont keep your units in cover with each other. Use one of the pgrens to bait and the other to volley it. I usually prefer to get a 222 to counter 1 m8/m20 though. |
Nope. Some detail here. Most tanks have between 5% (short range) to 2.5 % (long range) accuracy . So how does a tank hits things at all? here where unit size comes in. unit size multiplies the accuracy and most tanks have a unit size of 20 or more(t-34 unit size = 22 so 22 * 2.5 = 55 % to hit at long range). Infantry have the size of 1. so 95% of the shots will miss. a TD's AOE is still their (at 0.5) it doesnt need to hit an infantry member perfectly to kill. or if it misses its scatter can cause you to miss the target and hit the person next to it.
Received accuracy very slightly affects a tanks performance against infantry to the point of non existence.
This is 100% true, but the recieved accuracy does effect pintle-mgs such as the US M2HB on the sherman and the M20. The M20 should technically be a solid counter to obers, but the recieved accuracy crunches it hard, making it take too long to efficiently kill an ober. the Sherman on the other hand doesn't rely on it's M2HB as much, but it is still a fairly large part of the tanks's AI DPS. |
Which it rarely does and leaves you with no heavyweight AT once the inevitable double 85s roll in.
what do you call paks?
If you go ambush, you should also have your pgrens upped with shrecks by the time IS2 comes out to support your base AT. I can also usually get a panther out by the time the IS2s roll out. |
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I voted that the tech fuel costs are too high, but I actually think that the only real problem is t3 and t4. If relic swapped the t3 and t4 building cost with the tech unlock cost, I think that tech-wise ostheer would be in a good spot. I terms of the fast m20, I find that having an early mg which I get to vet 1 is all it takes to counter the m20. the mg should be your second unit built (after grens) so it can accumulate vet, but mg vet1 + gren faust counter m20 well for me. This is from a 2v2 perspective and an observation from watching 1v1s. |
What if we gave Obers an upgrade for dual shreks AND a 2nd LMG? Think how cool it would be for literal terminator squads! We could even use some captured shock troop body armor
I'd be up for that. of course, the 1v1 meta would be US going recon everygame for m8 squad wipes and free weapons for everyone! |
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