1) -The HQ upgrade would cost both MP and fuel and would become available to purchase after the construction of Tier 3/4. Perhaps 250 MP and 40-50 fuel but I am open to suggestions. That way if you wanted stronger conscripts right away it would slow your ability to produce armour. This would also encourage building tier 3/4 and lessen call-in spam.
-The squad upgrade would be 120 MP per squad (keep in mind the reinforcement cost of these squads would be 25 as opposed to 20 of normal cons), so in total you would be spending 360 on this ''frontoviki'' squad. Again I am open to suggestions if people feel a small (5) fuel cost should also be attached.
2) -As Steel and I discussed I believe that the conscripts should stick to being best at close range, so a pps43 would be my weapon of choice. It would cost 40 muni to purchase and perform worse than the ppsh so that the doctrinal weapon is still an advantage (ppsh does not require the HQ upgrade investment and performs better for the same muni cost). While not as good as the ppsh it would still give Cons a boost in close range combat.
- In terms of stats a slight increase to accuracy is the way I would be going, this way even though they lose some long range dps (due to losing rifles for smgs) the remaining Cons equipped with rifles would be more accurate and more consistent in dps. That way they don't become completely ineffective at ranges further than 15 etc. This would represent their experience with their weapons having fought on the front lines. As they already get a survivabilty bonus at vet 3 (at least I believe so) I don't think they would need any received acc buffs.
- No new abilities, the only change in abilities would be loss of merge. I can see your point about them having it from the start but once they lose it it shows they are more of a combat focused squad rather than being used in a primarily utility role. If you want to continue using merge then you will need a normal con squad to do this.
360 manpower and 40-50 fuel seem quite expensive for a squad that is very short range focused. You would probably lose a model when you reach the target if there is no cover around to use. So I think it should be more like 150-175 manpower and 30-35 fuel for the HQ upgrade and 120 manpower for the squad upgrade. |
It fits the idea that they are a mix of veterans and recruits. "I'm going over to that squad (5 stars), they look like they know what they're doing." If that's their quote I'm gonna laugh since their squad leader was the one who said it. |
Read.
Thank you Herr Strummingbird. |
It would do absolutely horrible harm actually.
Obersoldaten, fallshirmjeagers and JLI are the reasons why.
You could get them back into fight without any disadvantage at all, which can't be said about soviet units where only guards really benefit from it and they still have their own problems of being weapon piniatas.
Plus there is already forward reinforcment method for OKW in the way of medic truck. Well like I said, the ability will only work among themselves. Basically among Volksgrenadiere only not Obersoldaten, Fallschirmjager, JLI and weapon crew(not sure if allow it or not) |
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I was thinking if adding Merge ability to VolksGrenadiere would do any harm? Only works when using among themselves. VolksGrenadiere are after all veterans, recruits, formerly wounded men and merged together into a new unit to boost morale and keep things economical. Giving merge to them would allow you to keep the vetted ones longer in the field with non vetted guys. What you think of this?
Keep it friendly so that the Mods/Admins won't close this thread an hour after starting. |
If Cons get a native weapon upgrade option, kind of makes Grens look shit for having no Oorah/Merge native equivalents, dont you think?
Perhaps then Grens should also atleast get Sprint or perhaps Camo from the start as native? Medikit could also then be made native, and another Vet ability put in. Maybe change the weapons to be like the old system? LMG short range G43 and SVT long range. Just have to make sure the LMG42 don't destroy the PPS43 conscripts at point blank every time.
Or make the LMG have highest DPS at mid range and slighty lower at short and long. |
Both good suggestions, I prefer the pps43 suggestion though as it ties in with the idea of conscripts being close range fighters. The only problem is where would this leave the doctrinal ppsh?
In regards to the DP28, while it would give them more bite at longer ranges I think it would be better if that option was available to Penal troops (a long with penal troops being changed to a more middle range fighting squad).
How about the PPS43 is worse than the PPSH and when you choose a doctrine with PPSH it replaces the PPS43 package. |
I think the tension in this thread has become a bit high so we should all try to calm down a bit so we can get back to discussing the topic at hand.
I would agree with you that I would think that those who are sick of seeing Soviets choosing maxim spam, sniper spam would be happy to see that go away. It would also reduce the problem of conscript squad losses not seeming to matter as right now in late game vet 0 or vet 3 they are still going to be making very little impact on the game.
So let's go through this looking at the abilities a conscript can have:
Oorah: Very useful ability, allows conscripts to get up closer and deal more damage while taking less casualties as well as chasing down vehicles to throw AT nades. Can drain MP if used a lot.
Merge: A useful ability but not as great as many in here claim, yes it can keep a support weapon in combat longer but this means you will have a conscript squad ferrying up and down to this support weapon instead of capping etc. so you gain something but also lose something i.e. a squad is still going to need to be reinforced. It does have it's uses though and I will not deny that.
AT nade (125MP and 25 fuel to unlock): Useful to slow enemy vehicles down so that heavier AT can move into place and finish the vehicle off. Can be frustrating sometimes to see multiple nades bounce off without causing a crit. Also has an attached cost before access, but still this is a useful ability.
Molotovs (125MP and 25 fuel to unlock): Useful on buildings, and for denying cover. Can sometimes cause flame crits which can drop an MG team pretty fast. Long wind-up time and short range means that many times you will end up having to retreat after throwing it, also has an associated cost.
Flare mine (Vet 1): Can be useful to track enemy movements but I don't see many people using it, for 30 muni you can plant a mine that will kill more and perhaps cause the enemy to need to retreat to reinforce, still gives you an idea of enemy movement.
There is also the doctrinal conscript repair which is a very nice ability allowing you to keep tanks on the front lines and the doctrinal ppsh which can make vet 3 conscripts in close range be able to hold there own better in late game.
Now my suggestion for late game would be this, once you have built Tier 3 or 4 an option should become available at the HQ to unlock frontoviki squads. Once you have purchased this upgrade, any vet 3 conscripts at the HQ can be upgraded to frontoviki squads for a price.
I am open to suggestions on what this upgrade will give them, perhaps access to weaponry or slightly better stats.
To balance this upgrade out the MP cost to reinforce would go up by 5 to represent their increased combat efficency.
I feel this would make Soviet players more likely to try and keep Cons alive to vet 3 rather than throw them in the meat-grinder. It would also drain resources to convert units so if they wish to do this it might delay their T3/T4 armour appearing early. It would also be an advantage of not just building tier 2 and waiting for call ins.
A bunch of PPS43 or a single DP28. |
I thought this thread was about spam or skill not the percentage of axis-soviet players. Where exactly is this thread heading to ?  |
This thread... Don't you just love the fact that people worry about the imbalance caused by your "no offense intended" extra thin body? We know it's handicapping you. |
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