1v1 Penal Build Questions

Hi .org, I'm looking for some tips on my penal build for 1v1s and I've a few questions

I usually go Penal Penal M3 Penal Medics Guards. That's pretty set in stone. Depending on the situation i'll go for a PTRS upgrade or DP28s (after flamethrower) to counter light vehicles.

I often end up building a second Guards squad or a 120mm mortar (usually Guard Motor Coordination commander) but I find that I am often suffering from mp bleed and behind so I will go for a T34/85 from T4 and hold on during the mid game with just my infantry.

What are some ways I can diversify my build? Here are a few things I've thought of but not necessarily tried:

1) Should I get a sniper instead of the 2nd Guards squad? What if I need or choose a heavy mortar which would delay the acquisition of a sniper?

2) What are some commanders I could use that would complement or help diversify this penal build?

3) Are PPShs useful for use with penals, or kind of redundant? On some maps (like Lost Glider or Arnhem Checkpoint) I feel like having PPSh squads would be beneficial. If this is the case, could I go 2x penal 2x con 1-2x Guards? Or would I be better off going 3-4x penal with 1-2 shocktroops?

4) How is a T1-T2-T4 build? Would I be more effective forgoing the second Guards Squad or 120mm mortar and getting one ZiS, mortar, and Maxim? I feel like it would be good in theory but in practice difficult to micro & popcap intensive, depressing manpower income.

I was hoping to see some high level Soviet games from recent tournaments but I found a lot of the matchups (especially the 1v1 Elite Showdown) were Brits vs. OKW. Does anyone have any specific YouTube recommendations?

Thanks everyone!

1. The really important thing is what faction you are facing in this question. Sniper is very effective against MG and Grenadiers. Guards can really hammer OKW for various reasons. The slight CQC bias of Strums and STG Volks and the use of light tanks. Some adaptation but a good baseline. Mortar or sniper is whatever you need to counter. Sniper is going to be a micro tax. If you think another unit will be more effective then a sniper then consider skipping/postponing it.

2. If you are really big on counters(which it sounds like with your build style) I would recommend trying a doctrine with radio intercept. If you hear there is a 222 then guards, if you hear there is a sniper you can try to go counter sniper very easily with the element of surprise. Personally I find Penal builds slow early game so I don't love Armored Assault for them as it is extremely late game heavy(ignoring the early game benefits of radio intercept of course).

3. PPShs for Penals are pretty decent. They should be compared to shocks. First off Penals with PPSh come at 1cp vs 2 for shocks. The cost is 300mp/45muni vs 360mp. Reinforcement cost is higher for the shocks 24 vs 34 iirc and they are more frequently used abilities resulting in more muni use. The other aspect is you can merge conscripts in with either squad to make them cost 17-20mp to reinforce with a notable hit to durability. 10% easier to hit if you merge cons with penals, and 10% easier to hit and without any of the shock armor if you merge with shocks. Both you can dodge mp bleed if you have too by merging with cons. Moral of the story? Try penals with ppsh if you want early harassment or just simply one of the best CQC infantry. Merge with conscripts to keep yourself in the fight if manpower is not going your way. Against OKW a scout car with ppsh penals can be very deadly. If you are interested in airborne commander I recommend this video from 1 month ago. https://youtu.be/bWSjCZqb1Uo The other thing to consider is the veterancy. Penals have better combat vets while Shocks have much better grenades, durability especially with vet. If you find yourself using grenades a lot or fighting on open maps then shocks are going to be absolutely to be better. There is no right answer. My case is if you want PPSh Penals you should pick a shock commander since shock commanders are better then Penal PPSh commander.

4. T3 and T70 is the bread and butter of Soviets. Especially with Penal PRTS. The Penals with PTRS are fairly toothless against infantry. And sadly worse then guards against tanks unless you use sight blockers to throw at satchels at a tank. I have gotten 3 at satchels off this way on players up to around level 13-14. T70 can mop infantry while guards, ptrs penals, and ZiS guns end tanks. T70 will either flat out win you the game or allow you to stay in very long. I wouldn't skip T3.

As for finding videos; Propagandacast always gets some interesting Soviet games. Or just spectate. When I have down time I just watch the spectate list and drop what I am doing if I see a top player playing a faction I like. I find it is good tactical map practice and watching resources.

Just experiment

Against OKW I would say move your m3 up 1 unit so it goes penal m3 penal penal tech. You want as much time with the clown car as you can get since OKW has no fausts early. Faster flamer engineers in the clown car the better as well.

Against OST I personally abandon penals and go conscripts since they trade well enough with grens early and get the 7 man upgrade later. I find penals are a bit awkward vs grens since their high damage rifles often pick a model before penals can close to mid which really hampers their high cost DPS. Plus the LMGs later really punish penals.

I'd say diversify by building a maxim to support penals. They may be subpar now but are getting a slight buff in the mod. Futhermore if you want different commanders try some shock rifle or armored assualt(?). The one with 34/85s, radio intercept and IS2. Shock rifle gives you the very strong shock troopers which complement the mid/long range of penals very nicely, and the PTRS penals cover the shock troopers with AT. IS2 currently is a very nice tank and if the mod were to go live right now, the IS2 would be king of the new meta. Although new changes coming up so may want to look out for that.

Hope this helped a bit. Strafniki made some good points as well

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Thanks guys! I appreciate the suggestions.

I find the timing for fuel really pushes me into getting T3 early instead of back teching to T2 but often when i'm losing engagements and MP I just delay to T4 so i can save the manpower :/

Just played a game where i lost to OKW because of a 41-kill Flak half track. I didn't think I needed an AT gun but I did :c

Would you all recommend I upload a replay (or several) for additional help? I've done that in the past but they don't all necessarily get looked at!


With the M3 as second unit I really like the aggresiveness that it brings! Against Wehrmacht, I find a lot of people are stalling for Pgrens, sometimes with Ostruppen, sometimes with assault grenadiers, sometimes just pios and MGs and the M3 is super punishing.

Against OKW, the flak HT game I lost, my opponent went Fusiliers which get a faust right away which seems a bit broken to me >:c

Thanks guys! I appreciate the suggestions.

I find the timing for fuel really pushes me into getting T3 early instead of back teching to T2 but often when i'm losing engagements and MP I just delay to T4 so i can save the manpower :/

Just played a game where i lost to OKW because of a 41-kill Flak half track. I didn't think I needed an AT gun but I did :c

Would you all recommend I upload a replay (or several) for additional help? I've done that in the past but they don't all necessarily get looked at!


With the M3 as second unit I really like the aggresiveness that it brings! Against Wehrmacht, I find a lot of people are stalling for Pgrens, sometimes with Ostruppen, sometimes with assault grenadiers, sometimes just pios and MGs and the M3 is super punishing.

Against OKW, the flak HT game I lost, my opponent went Fusiliers which get a faust right away which seems a bit broken to me >:c

Fusi nade is only broken cause you can't abuse it Pepega.

Anyways there is literally zero downside to uploading a replay. At the most negative effect you'll get kicked from staff for trash talking and then further barred from the community because sturmpanther will ban you only for it to spiral futher and you'll end up never opening your computer again. Yes what could go wrong.

Show Spoiler

Anyways there is literally zero downside to uploading a replay. At the most negative effect you'll get kicked from staff for trash talking and then further barred from the community because sturmpanther will ban you only for it to spiral futher and you'll end up never opening your computer again. Yes what could go wrong.

You just confirmed my worst fears

well here it goes

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  0

  VS

  felix_17

  GBPirate

  7

  1v1 Soviet T1+T2 build

  by: Gbpirate map: Unknown

  1

  -

My opponent is rank 391 after losing to me in the above match but it was a bit difficult. The match before I lost to someone of a similar rank (thanks to Pfusiliers and aggressive early play that caught me off guard) but earlier today I handily beat a couple people in the upper 100s or lower 200s so


If either of you would be down to give this a detailed overview that'd be great and I'd really appreciate it.

@1:54 you retreated your CE very early when you still had a large distance from the sturm pioneers and the M3 was coming out. Could've just garrisoned the M3 and fought the sturms.

Opening build order is very slow. Typically people like to get 1 con or a 2nd CE to increase capping speed instead of going straight for penals. If you get the 2nd CE, you can instantly cap with the CE you start with and build T1 with the 2nd CE.

Consider upgrading a penal to PTRS just for the AT satchel. They're very deadly and will deter any vehicle from diving. It's not like guards are bad at AI either, so you won't sacrifice too much AI. It combos well with the M3 if you still have it at that point.

Try your best not to close in on StG volks with penals. The penals will lose too much of their squad on the close.

You were on crossing in the woods, a sniper is extremly powerful on this map if you want to use it (and be a scumbag).

You see a plane fly overhead, you should instantly know he has selected fallschirmjaegars, as there is no other slow plane drop in OKW.

It takes you a VERY long time to go and attempt to cap right. Should try to get to denying your opponents resources sooner. This occured mainly because you sent everything to go fight on the left side, and while penals will eventually win out over the volks, you don't always have to look for engagements. Denying resources is equally important.

@19:00 you got very lucky your opponet chased a CE for 1-2 seconds rather then ripping through your entire army on a flank. You would've easily lost your AT gun. This happened because your maxim and penal pushed up together on top of one another into an MG34. Consider probeing territory with a CE or penal before moving MGs up. MGs should be behind your army supporting them, not the frontline.

Move your t34 with a sweeper. If you hit a mine and there are cloaked raks around you will lose your tank.

Panther rolls out as you push the left side and your t34 is forced to retreat, only to be saved by guard button. This engagement occured near your opponents schwer HQ which would've been a very large order to take out, so I'm not sure why this was pushed. The guard squad just gets forced away by the schwer HQ. Meanwhile your AT gun is caught out of position and is decrewed. Your opponet attempts to steal it with smoke but you make a decision to suppress your opponet with IL2 loiter. That would've been a good play if you could've followed up on the IL2 to force away your opponet. Instead he just waits it out and crews the AT gun. You're floating 700MP at this point. A 2nd maxim would be great because of the map and how much you're being flanked.

@~28:00 your t34 is alone on the right side while the su85 fights the panther on left. While it's good you know where the panther is, your t34 gets snared when you're focusing on left. The panther then disappears and your su85 sits left. If you have a snared vehicle with no cover, be it mines, snares, other tanks covering it, you need to protect your armor. You didn't have mines on right and your army was either left or in base. I would've rotated the Su85 immediatly to cover your retreating t34.

Speaking of mines, PLANT MORE! Never have enough mines. Mines win games. parking the su85 in the center of the map and planting mines around it is a great tactic since the access points to the center are very narrow.

@31:30 don't back your tanks up into a corner without a retreat path. Pathing will screw you over everytime.

Again on right side you don't cap a whole lot. Evening setting up a cap order on a single engineer will help.

@32:23 literally watching a penal burn to death. Yes i'm watching from your camera. Good pickup of the single PTRS on a penal though. It unlocked the AT satchel while you still get 5 SVTs. Very good combination.

@34:15 IL2 dropped by you with no infantry around. Probably a panic reaction from the panther pushing. However that cost you a close range button which could've at least gotten the panther low.

@35:50 guards not on attack move approach a falls squad. Guards on attack move are great for basically everything and its the range they want to engage at.

Got some lucky moving accuracy hits on the panther at the end there. If you don't use glide shots I recommend them extensively, although they're very difficult on the Su85 in focused sight given.

Overall its pretty good micro and army composition. I think I would've chosen a t34 over a KV-1 but that's just me, as the KV-1 worked out very well. Just need to iron out a few things. Pressuring the entire map instead of 2/3s of it will go a long way. And the entire game a 2nd maxim would've been great. Other than though pretty good job. Although your doctrine choice is a bit odd. Usually players use that doctrine when they want guards and ppsh cons. Without the ppsh cons there isn't a whole lot of reason to select it. Plenty of other doctrines have guards and IL-2. And the 34/85 is just as powerful if not more powerful than the KV-1. I'd recommend armored assualt currently or shock rifle. I think next patch those 2 doctrines are going to be 1v1 powerhouses.

"Better player lost" lmao I gotta remember that one.

Thank you, Shadow Link!

I appreciate it a lot. I was cognizant of the "penals with PTRS are trash vs infantry" (not sure if that's the exact quote) so I was reluctant to do so but I see your point in having one to deter the deep-diving that can be so punishing.