how to: Level 100 German Play

I also feel that the Soviet Faction is more challenging to play in general. It seems like the Germans get smaller sized infantry squads and more expensive Vehicles,but those units are pretty much superior to the soviet counterpart of each specific unit (If there is one). Grens beat Scripts,LMG Grens vs Scripts is just plain unfair (given the fact that PPSH's are tied to doctrines),PGrens eat everything except Shocks (Shocks are doctrine specific),MG42's beat Maxims,T34/76's are cheaper but signficantly worse in their AT capabilities than P4's and usually come out at the same time,Panthers tackle everything by their own that has wheels and armor,even IS2's and ISU's,and Tigers & Elephants are just overkill.The only soviet units that are actually really good when compared to their german counterparts are soviet Snipers,120mm Mortars,Shocks,SU85's,ZiS AT guns and occasionally Penals (Penals are awesome,but underrated).SU85's and AT guns are the only semi-reliable AT units the soviets have. But its pretty much GG when 2 Panthers or 1 Tiger/Elephant hit the field. And one thing that really angers me is the fact that the Germans can have Shrecks and their incredibly powerful and near unstoppable Tank army at the SAME time. Soviets dont even have proper Infantry AT (Guard Rifles dont count,those are very soft AT at best). And the fact that buildings are incredibly powerful in this game annoys me even more. You can often see those german players doing nothing in the early game than running with their MG42's to key buildings. They often dont even have to care about them. Well executed Soviet flank maneuvers with 1 or 2 molotovs dont work the most of the time,because buildings offer ridiculous protection. And if those MG42's arent in buildings,they can simply move to another location and laugh at those chasing Scripts which arent doing any proper damage but rather dying like flies to Gren fire.
And i play both factions, and i lose and win with both factions. Im completely aware of the fact that Soviets can be dominant and that they have their advantages.
It seems like sovients are meant to win by having superior quantity rather than having quality. This is often easily countered by nobrainer Grenspam which cost 240 mp each,just like scripts do.
Germans seem to have very hard counters for almost every - and anything, while soviets often have only few hard counters and even those arent reliable for most of the time.

Keep in mind that this just my personal opinion and im not trying to call things op and/or offend other people.

The key to soviets is using the abilities in concert with well-micro'd combined arms. A LMG gren will kill a conscript squad 1:1 everytime, but if you start stacking advantages like HTD, molotovs, PPSH, mines, trip wires, whatever then the ostheer player will have trouble staying on the field.

It takes more work and thusly seems like the soviet faction is weaker, but I say its stronger once you master all the moving parts needed to dominate. Actively using unit abilities is key for the soviets as most of their units will lose in even matchups if you rely on simply shooting each other. I am assuming thats partly why abilities like molotovs and oorah are so cheap.

The key to soviets is using the abilities in concert with well-micro'd combined arms. A LMG gren will kill a conscript squad 1:1 everytime, but if you start stacking advantages like HTD, molotovs, PPSH, mines, trip wires, whatever then the ostheer player will have trouble staying on the field.

It takes more work and thusly seems like the soviet faction is weaker, but I say its stronger once you master all the moving parts needed to dominate. Actively using unit abilities is key for the soviets as most of their units will lose in even matchups if you rely on simply shooting each other. I am assuming thats partly why abilities like molotovs and oorah are so cheap.

I find kind of unfair that the Soviets HAVE to use all available abilities to win an engagement. While the german player has to put his squad in semi decent cover to win clearly,the soviet player has to use all abilities available to him. He has to put a lot more effort to win the game because his units are generally weaker but cheaper. He has to execute his strategies perfectly with atleast decent micro to even stand a chance against the german player with the same skill level. I find the german faction to be far more forgiving than the soviet one. Its just not fair to give Grens,which are already superior to Scripts,LMG's while the soviet player has to pick a doctrine to get his PPSH's just to see that his upgraded Scripts are still slightly weaker in an 1v1 unit engagement.

I find kind of unfair that the Soviets HAVE to use all available abilities to win an engagement. While the german player has to put his squad in semi decent cover to win clearly,the soviet player has to use all abilities available to him. He has to put a lot more effort to win the game because his units are generally weaker but cheaper. He has to execute his strategies perfectly with atleast decent micro to even stand a chance against the german player with the same skill level. I find the german faction to be far more forgiving than the soviet one. Its just not fair to give Grens,which are already superior to Scripts,LMG's while the soviet player has to pick a doctrine to get his PPSH's just to see that his upgraded Scripts are still slightly weaker in an 1v1 unit engagement.

I fully agree, because what you are forgetting is that while that soviets might take more work to use, they dominate when used properly. Its frustrating as hell seeing cheap conscripts oorah in front of your mg, HTD, throw a molotov and laugh before they even get suppressed. An MG42 takes less micro to set up, but will achieve less as well.

The answer is probably rebalancing the roles and strengths of the soviet meta to give individual units more passive staying power (aka shooting from cover) and de-emphasizing through a faction tweak overhaul the power of abilities

I fully agree, because what you are forgetting is that while that soviets might take more work to use, they dominate when used properly. Its frustrating as hell seeing cheap conscripts oorah in front of your mg, HTD, throw a molotov and laugh before they even get suppressed. An MG42 takes less micro to set up, but will achieve less as well.

+1, suggesting Germans have a more difficult time recuperating losses when things go awry.

i think the germans equipment have to be a lot more expensive and feel more painful to lose. not have stupid economic advantage things like opelz it's the soviets that's supposed to outproduce the enemy not the germans.

i think the germans equipment have to be a lot more expensive and feel more painful to lose. not have stupid economic advantage things like opelz it's the soviets that's supposed to outproduce the enemy not the germans.

cheap unit spam is fine but people dont seem to want that.

the most common complaints are that conscripts and t34s are too weak. I think people generally expect soviet units that are as strong as their german equivalents 1 on 1 but play differently, whether they come out and say it or not.

If that premise is true, embracing that design concept soviet costs must rise proportionately with any buffs (su85 costs as much as a p4 but completely negates german armor if used properly). I've seen posts begging for t34s or t34/85s to become p4s, but at 20-30 fuel cheaper, you know.... get real

cheap unit spam is fine but people dont seem to want that.

the most common complaints are that conscripts and t34s are too weak. I think people generally expect soviet units that are as strong as their german equivalents 1 on 1 but play differently, whether they come out and say it or not.

If that premise is true, embracing that design concept soviet costs must rise proportionately with any buffs (su85 costs as much as a p4 but completely negates german armor if used properly). I've seen posts begging for t34s or t34/85s to become p4s, but at 20-30 fuel cheaper, you know.... get real

Someone spending 97.2% of it's total ranked game play as OSTHEER, and trying to convince the opposite side "do it right, use it properly, Get real"

Reminds me the Gestapo in the concentration camp telling Jewish people " Work harder, you will gain your freedom!"


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It seems like sovients are meant to win by having superior quantity rather than having quality. This is often easily countered by nobrainer Grenspam which cost 240 mp each,just like scripts do.

I have been thinking alot about this and I think it comes down to how they designed the units, which i sad.

In vCoH volksgrens, rifles and grens all had a diffrent mp cost. Not alot, I think it was something like a 30 mp spread. However, they also designed the conscripts with some abilities like merge and oorah straight of the bat, without upgrades. I think this is kind of a bad choice. As far as engagements go, if my math and memory is correct, it is actually more expensice to reinforce 5 cons than 3 grens, and lets face it conscripts die quite fast. This adds to the mp drain on soviet builds. I would like to see grens sliiightly more expensive, and perhaps another ostheer t1 unit cheaper, like the mortar. This way ostheer can go costly grens only, or diversify their builds and save some mp for a OP or whatever is needed. Either that or reduce price of cons slightly (10-20mp?) to make them more "spammable". Oh well... ramblins...