Echelon Grenades

Jump back to quoted post17 Jun 2019, 14:26 PMLago

...Grenade REs aren't that good power-wise but they're really annoying. They work by overheating the opponent's micro, and that just isn't fun to deal with.

While I'd rather see them swapped out entirely in favour of the flamer, perhaps the autofiring grenades could be replaced with a manually targeted barrage ability? That'd be much less irritating than the autofiring grenades...

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 16:37 PMpvtgooner

You literally are asking to nerf a unit thats been around for four (4) days simply because it's annoying to micro around. You're playing an RTS I mean, this can't actually be real feedback right? I mean, lets just remove the GrW mortar and all in-direct while we're at it.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 14:19 PMmondeogaming1

Yeah microing is annoying

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 17:03 PMDoomlord52

The problem isn't that you need to 'micro around it', the problem is the person on the receiving end needs to micro a ton to counter a unit requiring nearly zero. This means that the USF player can focus on micro'ing rifles/tanks, while forcing the opponent to do more for essentially 'free'.

Micro/Effort should be proportional; if it takes a ton of micro to pull off, it should require a ton to counter. Similarly, if it requires almost no effort, it shouldn't be very effective. This is why off-map has flares and a long delay; it's a 1-click low-effort ability, so it's very easy to avoid.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 17:07 PMpvtgooner

That line of logic doesn't apply to any other indirect or static emplacement. I'll reiterate: If you're asking for the removal of a tool simply because its annoying for you to micro, it doesn't need to be removed and that persons feedback should be discarded. It costs 60 munis, fires stupidly slow. If you cant stop 6 RE squads, 15 minutes into the game, it's a L2P issue and not a unit one.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 08:43 AMAarotron

Rifle grenades are not induvidually so bad but when massed they are borderline broken. I was playing a match last day, and my opponent had gone for 6-7 rear echelon, all equipped with rifle grenades. I tried mgs to counter them, but the wave of grenade they fired just absolutely wiped every mg team i attempted to use. of course lategame blob counters work, but early on they are really annoying.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 17:16 PMDoomlord52

There's a pretty big argument to tone down auto-fire, too, for the same reasons. The skill input needs to reflect the return; this is pretty much how all RTS games are balanced.

And yes, the 6RE spam is an edge-case where the player probably needs to improve; but one or two RE-RifleNades supporting a proper rifle push is far too effective for the amount of skill required.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 16:37 PMpvtgooner

You literally are asking to nerf a unit thats been around for four (4) days simply because it's annoying to micro around. You're playing an RTS I mean, this can't actually be real feedback right? I mean, lets just remove the GrW mortar and all in-direct while we're at it.

You're the same guy that created the Jackson thread with 200+ comments. That's two threads created within a week asking to gut units for a faction you don't even play, simply because it's annoying for you(your quote btw). That's not feedback in good faith.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 16:37 PMpvtgooner

asking to gut units for a faction you don't even play

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 17:23 PMLago

I'm not asking to nerf it.

I'm suggesting replace it with a more powerful manually targeted ability (like an actual grenade) or with the Rear Echelon Flamethrowers from Rifle Company.




You see that little conscript icon in the corner? That's a playercard link.

Take a look.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 17:21 PMpvtgooner

Sorry, but being upset about the micro cost of an RE unit with a grenade after 4 days of seeing them is laughable compared to other axis examples like IRHT combo'd with 1 click rocket arty. Move out of the garrison or kill the RE. It's not hard to do either. Hopefully balance team is much smarter than to remove a new upgrade a week after release because it taxes an axis players micro in an annoying fashion.

Secondly, removing auto-fire from in-direct units is so stupid. They're indirect fire units meant to smash anything that can get spotted for them in range. We've been told to move our units for the last 6 years the games been out to counter IDF, but now I guess the community doesn't want to micro anything?

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 17:25 PMpvtgooner

You're right, you're not asking for it to be nerfed, you're asking for it to be REMOVED and replaced with a weapon you don't have to do much to move around. You're asking for the removal of something a lot of people have been really excited for because you have to actually micro. Don't blow smoke up my ass with "a more powerful ability", this is all about your inconvenience, not health of the game.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 17:27 PMDoomlord52

You're missing the point. In general, people want MORE micro, not less.

IRHT is low skill; it should be removed or 'fixed' somehow; but this isn't the thread for that. It's been brought up a few times. Rocket arty is fairly easy to counter. You can hear it coming, and there's a fair bit of delay before it hits. It's also manually targeted and has a long cool down. Yes, the OKW rocket arty does hit a bit hard with direct hits, but that's somewhat of a trade off for having almost no area of effect compared to Sov/USF/OKW/Brit rocket arty.

And, again, a 1v1 garisson fight isn't the issue. I've stated this a few times. It's concentrated rifle pushes supported by rifle-grenades against OST that's the issue. Their core units require you to be stationary to fire (LMG grens, MG42), and they need to do so in order to counter the rifles; but they can't because of a zero-input attack from a supporting unit.




No, we want to micro more; that's why IDF should require more micro for more effect.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 17:25 PMpvtgooner

You're right, you're not asking for it to be nerfed, you're asking for it to be REMOVED and replaced with a weapon you don't have to do much to move around. You're asking for the removal of something a lot of people have been really excited for because you have to actually micro. Don't blow smoke up my ass with "a more powerful ability", this is all about your inconvenience, not health of the game.

Jump back to quoted post18 Jun 2019, 08:06 AMSeductiveCardbordBox

There's no balance reason to need to change these. They're niche and have their own limits.

The only real complaint here is simply that a player doesn't want to have to deal with them, which isn't a problem.
Mortars do the exact same job but with better range and no reaction times. RE grenades allow your opponent more room to mitigate damage if they can keep up the micro to do so. Not a problem.