USF Mortar Halftrack & M1 Pack Howitzer Need Nerf

USF mortar performance is very close to that Ostheer. If the become identical it would be OP by comparison due ostheer's o smaller squad size and static play.

Don't understand this argument. It would mean Ostheer mortar is OP versus brits (since mortar emplacement got nerfed in range), because they have same squad size as Ostheer (Infantry and MG) and are pretty static.

Don't understand this argument. It would mean Ostheer mortar is OP versus brits (since mortar emplacement got nerfed in range), because they have same squad size as Ostheer (Infantry and MG) and are pretty static.

UKF can upgrade to 5 men squads and beat grenadier easily.

What about the following changes.

-Swap the Scott with the Pack Howitzer.

Rework both units.

Pack:
-Loses it's auto attack, but improves it's barrage mode converting itself in a mini mobile Howitzer. This will give USF it's late game artillery unit.
-Depending how good it is the barrage, increase mp cost and/or give it a fuel cost.

Scott:
-Reduce AA range from 60 to 40.
-Reduce lethal AoE on AA.
-Reduce penetration on barrage to match it's AA.
-Remove concealing smoke at vet 1.
-Swap barrage recharge from vet2 to vet 1.
-Give it delayed fused charges/white phosphorous at vet2 (you could then rework either ability for the MHT as well)

UKF can upgrade to 5 men squads and beat grenadier easily.

That answer was predictable and so is mine. That option is only theoretical. You won't do this in early game when MG, mortar battle unfolds because it just slows your tech too much when timing is important to have that AEC for example. Getting that Bren upgrade to boost your damage output significantly is the more important tech. Buying both upgrades results in trading one disadvantage (squad size) versus another (tech speed). Playing reasonably you will do this midgame at best to give your tommy squads a better chance to survive those increasing AOE attacks. The upgrade changes nothing about MG or PAK crew size of course.

Many ukf player tech to 5 men early on now.
5 men IS in 1v1 2v2 is enough to delay bren upgrade, especially against ost

Many ukf player tech to 5 men early on now.
5 men IS in 1v1 2v2 is enough to delay bren upgrade, especially against ost

Lets assume you are right, then yeah IS would be one man more for slowing down tech a bit.

What I tried to say: Someone said lets buff USF mortar to Ost level and move howitzer to doctrinal. Vipper answered that would be OP versus Ost because of small squad size and static gameplay. But on the other side who is more static than brits? Completely static mortar and IS squads that seek cover like a magnet because of negative out of cover modifiers and mid-long range weaponary plus small starting squad size (which can partly changed via side tech). Brits are the embodiment of static in CoH2.

I just wanted to say you can't claim an argument for just one faction if it is very similar or even worse for another one.

What about the following changes.

-Swap the Scott with the Pack Howitzer.

Rework both units.

Pack:
-Loses it's auto attack, but improves it's barrage mode converting itself in a mini mobile Howitzer. This will give USF it's late game artillery unit.
-Depending how good it is the barrage, increase mp cost and/or give it a fuel cost.

Scott:
-Reduce AA range from 60 to 40.
-Reduce lethal AoE on AA.
-Reduce penetration on barrage to match it's AA.
-Remove concealing smoke at vet 1.
-Swap barrage recharge from vet2 to vet 1.
-Give it delayed fused charges/white phosphorous at vet2 (you could then rework either ability for the MHT as well)

And why would you build it for then? That's a 100% nerf for USF faction. You believe that the 120 fuel to tech major are compensating all of that and what you're not mentioning?
-Forced to tech T2 to get it.
-Forced to spend 70 fuel early on to get what you had for only 340 mp before
-Rending PakHowi almost useless unless you make it a sort of clone of Lefh/Ml20 (which are doctrinal. can't wait for the 10x shitposts about how it is OP USF has a stock arty if your idea is released)

Not to mention that you're only at 5 range from gren pfaut, less with the appropriate bulletin and in range of pak40. And probably more.

I mean, what is it not understandable with the fact that the scott is as deadly as the pzwerfer or stuka are? Why aren't the people complaining about the Scott not complaining when they see a squad or more than one being vaporized in one go from one of those units? because in game that the exact same shit but with different flavors. Scott is more like a long term bleeder will Pzwefer and Stuka or Katy are one shot hard smashers.

But if people want to see the scott removed from USF T3, here is the best option: swap it with the Calliope. Make the Calliope a clone of Katy and let's see how people are getting happy with that.

And then we do the same with the Brumbar... Oh wait Ostheer already have a Scott on steroid AND pwerfer on the same tier and no one is complaing!!!!

Lets assume you are right, then yeah IS would be one man more for slowing down tech a bit.

What I tried to say: Someone said lets buff USF mortar to Ost level and move howitzer to doctrinal. Vipper answered that would be OP versus Ost because of small squad size and static gameplay. But on the other side who is more static than brits? Completely static mortar and IS squads that seek cover like a magnet because of negative out of cover modifiers and mid-long range weaponary plus small starting squad size (which can partly changed via side tech). Brits are the embodiment of static in CoH2.

I just wanted to say you can't claim an argument for just one faction if it is very similar or even worse for another one.

Let me explain this differently. Ostheer UKF much up is completely different than USF Ostheer much up.

IS section beat Grenadier section in static play. Ostheer mortar was hit very hard with nerf and is not really that good anymore. The much up will no be won by spamming mortars.

Riflemen can beat by used aggressively to flank Grenadiers can not. The USF mortar is currently only slightly weaker than Ostheer one. If USF are able to win in static the Ostheer will have little option since they will lose static and will also lose if they launch an attack.

USF mortar was tested being equal to Ostheer one and was proven to be simply OP.

And why would you build it for then? That's a 100% nerf for USF faction. You believe that the 120 fuel to tech major are compensating all of that and what you're not mentioning?
-Forced to tech T2 to get it.
-Forced to spend 70 fuel early on to get what you had for only 340 mp before
-Rending PakHowi almost useless unless you make it a sort of clone of Lefh/Ml20 (which are doctrinal. can't wait for the 10x shitposts about how it is OP USF has a stock arty if your idea is released)

Not to mention that you're only at 5 range from gren pfaut, less with the appropriate bulletin and in range of pak40. And probably more.

I mean, what is it not understandable with the fact that the scott is as deadly as the pzwerfer or stuka are? Why aren't the people complaining about the Scott not complaining when they see a squad or more than one being vaporized in one go from one of those units? because in game that the exact same shit but with different flavors. Scott is more like a long term bleeder will Pzwefer and Stuka or Katy are one shot hard smashers.

But if people want to see the scott removed from USF T3, here is the best option: swap it with the Calliope. Make the Calliope a clone of Katy and let's see how people are getting happy with that.

And then we do the same with the Brumbar... Oh wait Ostheer already have a Scott on steroid AND pwerfer on the same tier and no one is complaing!!!!

Pack Howi: the point is having a unit which can perform well on barrage mode and removing the whole sit unit afk while it auto attacks whatever is in range. The unit already has pseudo Howitzer performance when it unlocks Heat. Heat as default with more shells and barrage only would make it a lite LefH.

The mortar is already there for constant soft bleeding.

Scott: the reason i cut the range down to 40 (that's still 15 more range from faust, weapon range is not the same as cast range) is to make akin to other light tanks with AI (T70/P2) when i bring it down in tiers.
I think i found it funny that you mention the Brum, when the unit was nerfed in the exact same way as i describe the Scott. The range was cut down and the wipe capabilities were tone down in favour of more spread damage. The range on the barrage remains the same.

All the rocket units you describe have one common denominator, they are barrage only units and they get 1 shot by any 160dmg and are vulnerable to small arm fire. Scott is armored, has 400HP and get's smoke to escape through vet.


You might not like it, but Scott is one of the few units which has escaped the "scope" grip, thus retaining his power level which remains from previews meta's.
As long as it remains in the Major tech, it has to be stupidly OP in the AI department for someone to prefer it over a Sherman with AI.

Pack Howi: the point is having a unit which can perform well on barrage mode and removing the whole sit unit afk while it auto attacks whatever is in range. The unit already has pseudo Howitzer performance when it unlocks Heat. Heat as default with more shells and barrage only would make it a lite LefH.

The mortar is already there for constant soft bleeding.

Scott: the reason i cut the range down to 40 (that's still 15 more range from faust, weapon range is not the same as cast range) is to make akin to other light tanks with AI (T70/P2) when i bring it down in tiers.
I think i found it funny that you mention the Brum, when the unit was nerfed in the exact same way as i describe the Scott. The range was cut down and the wipe capabilities were tone down in favour of more spread damage. The range on the barrage remains the same.

All the rocket units you describe have one common denominator, they are barrage only units and they get 1 shot by any 160dmg and are vulnerable to small arm fire. Scott is armored, has 400HP and get's smoke to escape through vet.


You might not like it, but Scott is one of the few units which has escaped the "scope" grip, thus retaining his power level which remains from previews meta's.
As long as it remains in the Major tech, it has to be stupidly OP in the AI department for someone to prefer it over a Sherman with AI.

as he said just replace scott with caliope and make it like katy whats the problem ? Easy solution if u think rocket arty is worse than scott then go on pls replace it with caliope. As u said usf dont need two anti blob tanks . U must understand u cant leave usf with any refund. Your idea about late game pack howie is just lazy and open window for axis rocket arty

as he said just replace scott with caliope and make it like katy whats the problem ? Easy solution if u think rocket arty is worse than scott then go on pls replace it with caliope. As u said usf dont need two anti blob tanks

You mean make calliope have 160 HP and 7 armor?

So when I suggested making Scott doctrinal it makes you seek and then you suggest to make M8 doctrinal...

You mean make calliope have 160 HP and 7 armor?

So when I suggested making Scott doctrinal it makes you seek and then you suggest to make M8 doctrinal...

yes because u suggest it without any refund
Even one hit caliope is better than nothing

Invised a post for excess flame

USF mortar performance is very close to that Ostheer. If the become identical it would be OP by comparison due ostheer's o smaller squad size and static play.

Just the range change would be enough. If USF loses the pack howitzer from its tech then the mortar would need to fill that gap of light indirect fire. A slight buff to the mortar would be needed in order to offset the general faction nerf of removing the pack howitzer from the major.

However, just a copy and paste of the WM mortar might be OP. Some one else reminded me that it was tested that way at some point and it had to be tuned down, so I can agree with that so how about instead:

A: keep suggested changes from my previous post.

B: increase USF mortar range to match WM mortar. Then leave it alone and see if that’s good enough.

Pack Howi: the point is having a unit which can perform well on barrage mode and removing the whole sit unit afk while it auto attacks whatever is in range. The unit already has pseudo Howitzer performance when it unlocks Heat. Heat as default with more shells and barrage only would make it a lite LefH.

The mortar is already there for constant soft bleeding.

Scott: the reason i cut the range down to 40 (that's still 15 more range from faust, weapon range is not the same as cast range) is to make akin to other light tanks with AI (T70/P2) when i bring it down in tiers.
I think i found it funny that you mention the Brum, when the unit was nerfed in the exact same way as i describe the Scott. The range was cut down and the wipe capabilities were tone down in favour of more spread damage. The range on the barrage remains the same.

All the rocket units you describe have one common denominator, they are barrage only units and they get 1 shot by any 160dmg and are vulnerable to small arm fire. Scott is armored, has 400HP and get's smoke to escape through vet.


You might not like it, but Scott is one of the few units which has escaped the "scope" grip, thus retaining his power level which remains from previews meta's.
As long as it remains in the Major tech, it has to be stupidly OP in the AI department for someone to prefer it over a Sherman with AI.

PakHowi with constant heat shell, even only on barrage would be OP. Stock Arty seems well on paper but crazy ingame. I can already hear the OKW players complain about it.
Brumbar was on another level and has been adjusted, I don't remember having see a scott two shots a full health squads since long time (since pathing and squad formation patch) unlike the brumbar before its nerf 6 months ago.
All rocket units can unload their weapon in less than 10 seconds and reach base safety afterwards, Scott can't. As I said, same devastation for infantry but with different methods.

Now if the idea here is again to uniform each faction, let's swap Calliope and M8A1 but again I'm curious to see people reaction.