Dealing with Early T-70

I am a low-level player but, I am having some difficutly understanding how to deal with an Early T-70.

Obviously, I know the hard counters but, with my careless mistakes and not pigeon-hole-ing myself into weird builds; What is the general rule to prevent an early T-70?

If I try to set-up early Teller mines, then I am sacrificing (see delaying) my gren squads' LMG upgrade (argueably one of the best T1.5 upgrades in the game). Then, I cannot take the map back as he'll either 1.) beat my grens in combat with mulitple units or 2.) cap more of the map and hide in buildings.

If I give my grens LMG upgrades, I'll take the map but, he'll eventually get the T-70 out.
If I try to rifle grenade cons in/out of cover or "play the building dance game" i'm using even more muni, not for LMGs or Tellers; BUT, I need to push him off the map/out of buildings and rifle grenade is the only way to do that (IMO, In T1).

Pgrens fall into the same problem and die (even with shrecks) just as quick vs a well-microed/half-decent-microed T-70, or multiple guards or 1 shocktroop.

Is the mainstream idea to get a Pak ASAP at T2? I feel this is a bad idea because if the soviet player uses ANY commander-call-in or upgrades (shocks, guards, ppshs) they can just over run my paks, even with my grens/mgs/pgrens on the field.

Flamehalf Track is such a HUGE investment (muni wise) that if i don't micro/keep away from T-70, I lose a HUGE advantage and now he can push more with his inf.

My first intention is "go hard counter" and get ANYTHING T3 but, if I focus too much on T3 fuel/Converse resources too much, I cannot get map control to get the resources FOR T3.

I guess to answer my own question would be to keep my gren(s) and 1 pg along with 1 pak and "hold out till T3"/ "Play Defensively" while the T-70 hits the field.

It's funny, i acutally prefer su-85 because my army composition just becomes Pgrens and Paks or i'll have T3 at the same time. Now, against T3 soviets, I feel my ONLY option is T3, to seal the game.

TLDR; I hate building "pre-emptive" PAKs; How can I better prepare for Soviet T3?

PG with shrecks is the best option for t70's however there's also another way but risky, you can get 2 scout cars with upgrades and attack the t70 by surprise in the rear, you would be surprised how much damage those scout cars do to the t70

As the kick starter of early T-70s I think my input will be useful here, as I usually never tell anyone the best way to deal with it, ofc because I don't want to lose , but since I'm currently developing a better strategy without using T-70s I might as well help you out.

First off, never build up gunned scout cars to counter the T-70 as penetration wise the T-70 will always win, even if there are two up gunned scout cars(but only if the T-70 is showing frontal armor or is at medium to far range from the Upgunned scout cars).


Secondly, the best type of AT to deal with the T-70 is definitely teller mines. Now I know you want the munitions used for that to be given only for the lmg upgrade that grens have, but in all honesty if you really wanted to take care of cons/other infantry all you need is one halftrack out with grens surrounding it, so that way you can constantly reinforce your gren squads when dealing with Shocks or multiple cons(9/10 you will win the engagement). Now if the Soviet player is constantly getting inside of buildings the easiest way to deal with that is get a mortar out/ignore him and cap other points(specifically his cutoffs). Now getting back on topic make sure to place the teller mines on roads/paths where he is most likely going to cross to engage your infantry.

Thirdly, to prevent the opponent your playing from getting T-70s early game always go for his cutoffs that connect to his fuel points, because without fuel he can't make T-70s as quickly as he wants to, and is also forced to stop you immediately if you do this.

Fourthly if you can't wait to build your T3 and he already has a T-70 on the field while you're about to build the T3 building/building it, you also have the option of calling out a Panzer 4 Command Tank(you should have the cps by then) This will also ultimately counter the T-70 effectively instead of getting fast t3.

-(If you want to use t2 paks) It is essential to get at least one pak out and place it as close to your base as possible. That way if a T-70 rushes you close to your base you'll have time to move your pak to whatever position is needed(plus if the enemy has shock troops or other infantry he wont be able to intercept the pak since it's so close to your base and because you can also quickly put it behind one of your mg bunkers).

On some maps, a pak is a bad idea, use your best judgement. No one mentioned shreks as a soft counter while you tech to T3, it's a little risky but if you keep the halftrack with the PGrens you can keep them alive and on the field.

If the T70 comes to early, don't be afraid to pull your forces back and just gaurd the 2 or 3 points near your base with a pak. You can come back onto the field when you get a PIV or have both shreks and a pak.

Secondly, the best type of AT to deal with the T-70 is definitely teller mines. Now I know you want the munitions used for that to be given only for the lmg upgrade that grens have, but in all honesty if you really wanted to take care of cons/other infantry all you need is one halftrack out with grens surrounding it, so that way you can constantly reinforce your gren squads when dealing with Shocks or multiple cons(9/10 you will win the engagement). Now if the Soviet player is constantly getting inside of buildings the easiest way to deal with that is get a mortar out/ignore him and cap other points(specifically his cutoffs). Now getting back on topic make sure to place the teller mines on roads/paths where he is most likely going to cross to engage your infantry.

Thirdly, to prevent the opponent your playing from getting T-70s early game always go for his cutoffs that connect to his fuel points, because without fuel he can't make T-70s as quickly as he wants to, and is also forced to stop you immediately if you do this.

Fourthly if you can't wait to build your T3 and he already has a T-70 on the field while you're about to build the T3 building/building it, you also have the option of calling out a Panzer 4 Command Tank(you should have the cps by then) This will also ultimately counter the T-70 effectively instead of getting fast t3.

From what i found mortars take FOREVER to dispurse units out of buildings but, i will consider it. Plus, "ignoring his building play" makes my enemy do the same thing i'm trying to do to him, cut off his points. With this happening, i found it almost impossible to retreat as his units from his cut offs are protecting them and the lone units decapping mine have a possiblity to take out my retreating squad.

i never thought of p4 command tank, if i'm in a good situation to call one in with CPs I will definately consider doing that!

I will try the tactic of Half-track "push" while setting up teller mines on important roads/choke points.

Thank you guys so much for your help; I'll let you know if these tips will work well for me.

faust+upgunned 222 or two upgunned 222

gren- panzer faust then send upgunned AC to finish it IF!!!! there is no conscript out there who will drop at nade on you OOOOOOR teller mine OOOOOR pak OOOOOR pggren OOOOOR p4 OOOOOR ostwind OOOOOR panther OOOOOr tiger OOOOR elefent OOOOOR pak43 OOOOOR brumbar if it doesnot move OOOOR howitzer if you are eneugh lucky OOR stug OOOR crapper stug OOOOR flame halftrack which kill the bridge under the t70
fix me if i forget something.

As the kick starter of early T-70s I think my input will be useful here, as I usually never tell anyone the best way to deal with it, ofc because I don't want to lose , but since I'm currently developing a better strategy without using T-70s I might as well help you out.

First off, never build up gunned scout cars to counter the T-70 as penetration wise the T-70 will always win, even if there are two up gunned scout cars(but only if the T-70 is showing frontal armor or is at medium to far range from the Upgunned scout cars).


Secondly, the best type of AT to deal with the T-70 is definitely teller mines. Now I know you want the munitions used for that to be given only for the lmg upgrade that grens have, but in all honesty if you really wanted to take care of cons/other infantry all you need is one halftrack out with grens surrounding it, so that way you can constantly reinforce your gren squads when dealing with Shocks or multiple cons(9/10 you will win the engagement). Now if the Soviet player is constantly getting inside of buildings the easiest way to deal with that is get a mortar out/ignore him and cap other points(specifically his cutoffs). Now getting back on topic make sure to place the teller mines on roads/paths where he is most likely going to cross to engage your infantry.

Thirdly, to prevent the opponent your playing from getting T-70s early game always go for his cutoffs that connect to his fuel points, because without fuel he can't make T-70s as quickly as he wants to, and is also forced to stop you immediately if you do this.

Fourthly if you can't wait to build your T3 and he already has a T-70 on the field while you're about to build the T3 building/building it, you also have the option of calling out a Panzer 4 Command Tank(you should have the cps by then) This will also ultimately counter the T-70 effectively instead of getting fast t3.

-(If you want to use t2 paks) It is essential to get at least one pak out and place it as close to your base as possible. That way if a T-70 rushes you close to your base you'll have time to move your pak to whatever position is needed(plus if the enemy has shock troops or other infantry he wont be able to intercept the pak since it's so close to your base and because you can also quickly put it behind one of your mg bunkers).

you should make advice guide like this , and forget your potato tactic which is fcked up if you run over a teller mine

What works best for me:

Build a Pak and keep a Grenadier squad close to it. The Pak will deny an important area to the T-70 and if he tries to circle-around your Pak you can faust him. If he tries to keep a distance to the Grenadiers to stay out of the Panzerfaust range, the Pak isn´t circled as easily and it becomes very risky to keep doing that with the T-70.

PAK and a shrek squad, and in general have a grenadier based army (so you have fausts available easily).

But it can be really tough if the opponent micros well. I tend to simply give up ground and try to hold the fuel until I get my own tanks.

And hide your troops behind shotblockers, don't let him sit at range and snipe your guys, make him move in close so you can get a PAK/shrek shot off and even better a faust.

Played about 12 1v1s back to back last night as Ostheer. Literally, every single game was vs. 4 cons rushing to a T70. It's a bit boring really. People just laddering with that build over and over and over. Anyway, Pak and Gren + faust with Pgrens and Shreks works best for me. I get nervous about investing fuel and munitions all in a FHT and prefer to save all fuel for T3. The nice thing is that the T70 rush is usually paired with Soviet T2 so it's fun to be able to work a sniper in later on as Ostheer.

Like previous posters said, you need to faust it, then finish it off with PAK or pgrens with panzershreks, so keep them close. I personally prefer pgrens.

If a building is near by, get in it, your pgrens can still shoot the panzershrecks and will be protected from the T-70 because of the building.

You can also try and trick your opponent by trying to time your panzershrecks upgrade meaning... charge the T-70 with your panzergrenadiers when the shreck upgrade is almost finish, he will maybe stay close to your pgrens hoping to kill them because he doesn't see any danger but you'll then pull out the panzershreks and kill it

If you are going for a Teller mine, keep it between the T-70 and an easy pray to serve as bait, like an MG-42 and obviously there is more chance if planted on a choke point.

You also have the ability to cloak your panzergrenadiers from the commanders Jaeger Infantry or Storm.

BUT, I would try to stall it as much as possible and go for a PIV, if your opponent spent fuel for a T-70, he shouldn't have anything armor wise to counter your PIV afterwards.

If your early game map/fuel control is poor, expect armor and save for panzershreks or paks.

I'd like to try using the call-in Pgren/halftrack from the Assault Grenadier dlc commmander vs. T-70 rush. It also costs 55 fuel if I remember right. Would just need to have 120 munitions in the bank for some PE style anti-tank roadracing. I can't remember if it is 2 or 3 CP though - if it's 3, it won't work.

its cp 2, and i've tried that, but 55 fuel, 560 manpower and 120 munitions is a huge investment, especially if you get it wrong or they don't go t70 or they support it with infantry as the pgs will fire rockets at the inf, but it can work.

The other problems you need to bear in mind are do you get it preemptively? and use it against cons first and try and force him to get at nade to slow his fuel down, just that it has limited uses, t34 destroys it easy, only really good against su85

here is a game with it in http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes2/replays.php?game=83&show=details&id=288450

let me know what you think as i hate early t70

Best counter to T70 (should get Helpinghans Gold Seal of Approval®):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiBUW8gZ0RU

I dont think there are any top player that dislike T70 spam more than Helpinghans. If you dont like playing as the underdog against T70 (or early P4/Ostwind as Soviet), just learn from Helpinghans and Vonivan and then abuse the crap out of cons or osttruppen spam to control and/or deny both fuel points. Deny the fuel and no more worry about early T70 or P4 spam.

In 1vs1 tier-0 spam (cons and osttruppen) are OP for both factions because they can potential control or deny both fuel points from your opponent.
For germans if you dont spam osttruppen against someone with equal skill you'll at best be able to keep one fuel point (not both). If you mess up and get flanked its pretty much gg. Risk vs reward, there are no good reasons to tech early because Tier-0 spam work the best to cap and then tech to whatever you want once you have map dominance..
Soviet dont even have a choice and has to spam cons because T1/T2 building time are to long.

On higher level play, german halftrack can also be used to control and/or deny fuel but risk vs reward they are not worth it for less experienced players. Even high level players sometimes overextend the halftrack or dont use it to deny fuel.

Bottom line, tier-0 spam are boring to watch and play with. Just decide for yourself if you want to win games or play for fun.

EDIT: Dont build 6 osttruppen squads like Hans. Require to much micro for less experience players, just build 3-4 to cap and then tech to whatever you want.

Been playing german recently and I have been having problems with a t70.


Rushing t3 seems like a mistake unless you have the map control to support it.


for soviets the fuel rush is like this:

50Tir1 + 90Tir3 + 55T70 = 195fuel

For germans, rushing a P4 goes like this:
15fuel T1 + 25 fuel T2 upgrade + 50 fuel T3upgrade + 35 fuel T3 + 115 Panzer4 = 240 fuel

It's close but you will have to deal with that mini-tank without a panzer 4 for awhile unless you are ahead.


It seems like you have to go tir 2. It's only 15 fuel to start rolling out panzer grenadiers and panzershrek squads.

You are talking about rushing p4 which is ten tomes more powerful then T70.
If you compare building p4 and t34 the cost will be the same.
And p4 will still beat any t34 unless poor micro, mistake, bad luck and so on

They are annoying, particularly backed up with snipers.


But you can keep delaying them by using fuast then retreat, try to hide around corners and ambush it, if youve managed to get an MG to vet1, the AP rounds (use it in a building) will rip through a T70, meaning you can hold on to a fuel.

Also your calc is without any con upgrades, so that should help you fight back until you can pull that p4 out.

Counter is two stages: (Non-Industry)

1) First consolidate your forces at approaches to your fuel. You absolutely must hold your own fuel in order for the second stage to become valid. You absolutely need PaK, atleast one Teller and preferably a Shrek PGren. (Sorry, but 222 is shit)

Then its a waiting/baiting game. Try to lure the initial T70 into your Teller Mine, with Shreks positioned to finish it off, or with PaK being in position to quickly move up and fire (you MUST hide the PaK before that though. If Sov knows its there, hell just fuck off and kill your capping elsewhere instead).

You will probably also need Grens around to deal with Sov infantry support.

The goal is to a) control your own fuel at all costs b) try to get the initial T70 to overextend into your AT.

2) If youve managed to hold your fuel atleast, build T3 and preferably a PIV. Stugs are basically a slow PaK on wheels. T70s can avoid them from a mile away. You want a PIV to be able to hunt the T70s down once and for all.

Its a bit shitty, because it hinges so strongly on the Sov player being an idiot with his initial T70. If he uses it in conjunction with Infantry, he will pull back in time. If he sees your trap, all your investment and loss of map control is for nothing. If he plays conservatively with his first T70 (whixh every Sov player should be with his initial T70), you again, are pretty much fucked in your careful trap investment at loss of map of map control and he may start to snowball T70s whereas youve already dumped MP and Muni.