Why is OKW balanced the way it is?

Is it me or does OKW have every little advantage you could get?

Strongest starting unit
Infantry that doesn't require to research weapons/nades (gets them from basic teching)
Being able to upgrade some infantry weapons in hostile territory
Infantry not dropping AI weapons on low models/wipes
Unique vet system
Most secure base structure defense that negates light vehicle base-rush
T0 raketen and AT options for almost all infantry later on (shrecks, fausts)
KT without using up a commander slot and no way to deny it by destroying the tech structures
Elite infantry (obers) without using up a commander slot
Overwatch doctrine with double abilities
Free AA building with teching that outranges infantry vision

Is there an aspect where they get the short end of the stick?

With strong generalist and specialist tanks and probably the best mobile artillery in the game they seem like a very low risk high reward faction.

My guess is that some of the things were balanced around not having a sniper (although having the option of one of the best anti sniper units in the form of JLI) but once snipers have been nerfed this faction was never adjusted.


I know people feel passionate about the faction they play but whats your honest opinion about this?

Strongest starting unit

That should probably go to brits, because they start with a mainline infantry. Sturmpioneers are way weaker than people think they are and lose most engagements unless they ambush the enemy at closer range.

Infantry that doesn't require to research weapons/nades (gets them from basic teching)

Axis get those for "free" because the buildings and overall tech is slightly more expensive. OKW also starts with the least amount of fuel.

Being able to upgrade some infantry weapons in hostile territory

They were designed to be an offensive faction, this comes from that design just the same way as paratroopers or stormtruppen are able to upgrade behind enemy lines.

Infantry not dropping AI weapons on low models/wipes

That's not exactly a bad thing, imagine volks dropping their STG's next to Obersoldaten, I don't think anyone would want to deal with that, and no one would exchange their bars/brens/dps for volk STG.

Unique vet system

It's 3 vet levels spread over 5 vet levels.

Most secure base structure defense that negates light vehicle base-rush

Because they have no (reliable)counters for an early light vehicle. Without those AA guns in the base, game would be over for OKW the second M3A1 comes out.

T0 raketen and AT options for almost all infantry later on (shrecks, fausts)

Raketen is pretty much the worst AT gun that relies on cheesy mechanics. Every faction has a snare and shrecks are stuck on an engineer unit that's expensive to maintain.

KT without using up a commander slot and no way to deny it by destroying the tech structures

And Brits have a Churchill which is much more cost effective. KT is basically free vet for enemy TD's and AT guns.

Elite infantry (obers) without using up a commander slot

They die easily to light vehicles, can't deal well with vetted up infantry without vetting up first themselves.

Overwatch doctrine with double abilities

You can't judge a faction because of one doctrine that's overpowered, + USF has those too.

Free AA building with teching that outranges infantry vision

It's also easy to destroy, and it's vision doesn't outrange all infantry vision either.

Is there an aspect where they get the short end of the stick?

With strong generalist and specialist tanks and probably the best mobile artillery in the game they seem like a very low risk high reward faction.

My guess is that some of the things were balanced around not having a sniper (although having the option of one of the best anti sniper units in the form of JLI) but once snipers have been nerfed this faction was never adjusted.

Well, they do get the short end of the stick in non-vehicle AT department. The generalist is the most expensive non-doc generalist in the game so it probably should be better than the rest of them, STUKA is predictable and not exactly the best mobile arty(might be the best rocket arty but that's debatable). About JLI, when the snipers were "nerfed", they weren't that strong at all, they were only in scavenge doctrine and were pertty mediocre tbh. I don't deny that OKW probably is the strongest faction but it's not because of the reasons that you think they are. It's all because of one stupid doctrine + more or less overperforming mainline infantry, take those two away and they'll probably end up going from top tier to bottom tier.

That should probably go to brits, because they start with a mainline infantry. Sturmpioneers are way weaker than people think they are and lose most engagements unless they ambush the enemy at closer range.

Axis get those for "free" because the buildings and overall tech is slightly more expensive. OKW also starts with the least amount of fuel.

They were designed to be an offensive faction, this comes from that design just the same way as paratroopers or stormtruppen are able to upgrade behind enemy lines.

That's not exactly a bad thing, imagine volks dropping their STG's next to Obersoldaten, I don't think anyone would want to deal with that, and no one would exchange their bars/brens/dps for volk STG.

It's 3 vet levels spread over 5 vet levels.

Because they have no (reliable)counters for an early light vehicle. Without those AA guns in the base, game would be over for OKW the second M3A1 comes out.

Raketen is pretty much the worst AT gun that relies on cheesy mechanics. Every faction has a snare and shrecks are stuck on an engineer unit that's expensive to maintain.

And Brits have a Churchill which is much more cost effective. KT is basically free vet for enemy TD's and AT guns.

They die easily to light vehicles, can't deal well with vetted up infantry without vetting up first themselves.

You can't judge a faction because of one doctrine that's overpowered, + USF has those too.

It's also easy to destroy, and it's vision doesn't outrange all infantry vision either.

Well, they do get the short end of the stick in non-vehicle AT department. The generalist is the most expensive non-doc generalist in the game so it probably should be better than the rest of them, STUKA is predictable and not exactly the best mobile arty(might be the best rocket arty but that's debatable). About JLI, when the snipers were "nerfed", they weren't that strong at all, they were only in scavenge doctrine and were pertty mediocre tbh. I don't deny that OKW probably is the strongest faction but it's not because of the reasons that you think they are. It's all because of one stupid doctrine + more or less overperforming mainline infantry, take those two away and they'll probably end up going from top tier to bottom tier.

Obers cant engage mainline inf until vet?!? No they can hold their own against vet Tommies fine, but at vet 2 they straight up seal club any vet mainline inf in the game.

Hell you can even death loop a Vickers from long range once obers vet. Best inf in the game along with lmg paras

CoH2 is Asymmetrically balanced and OKW are probably the most Asymmetrically balanced faction of the bunch, so whilst it seems they have every little advantage. They also have several pretty critical flaws.

OKW always seem strong at a glance because all of their stuff is the best at just being thrown at a cap point. Their tanks have the best frontal armour and their infantry are the best for just running and gunning. So if you are also just running at the cap as well, they are gonna win every time, it's what they're designed for. Once you start playing smarter they kinda of fall apart due to their flaws.

1: They are extremely predictable, OKW will either spam volks early game rolling into a panzer 2 or flak-bus and LeiGs, or they will double sturm rush you if the map allows it. Then Late game... They gonna get panthers. If you see panzerfusiliers expect to deal with a Jagdtiger. You can prepare for all of these pretty easily.

2. Their roster is full of holes, the LeiG isn't as good against infantry as the mortar. They have no sniper, they can't get machine guns straight away and they have no assault infantry.

3. 90% of OKW players atm mostly rely on volks spam to win them the game, invest in AoE or spam back with better infantry and they'll crumnble.

4. OKW don't deal well with suppression and have little of their own so an early .50 cal or maxim or even a vickers can set them back for ages (British though I'd advise building more Tommies over an MG as they're better than volks anyway).

5. Whilst Volks upgrade easily and cheaply to STG-44s, they are still worse than upgraded allied squads so if they invest in STGs make sure you invest as well.

6. A lot of OKW units are designed to bleed you harder than they bleed themselves, hence volks blobs are seemingly endless and Obers are scary, If you start bleeding OKW for free, they tend to curl up and die, AoE weapons are great for this, Katyushas, Shermans, priests, churchills (any), mortars, demo charges etc. Alternatively utilise your muntions, it pains me when I see allied players stacking fuel caches when muni caches are so much more useful imo, there's no point having 700 fuel if you have no manpower where as you can always use 2000 munitions on something certain commanders with anti infantry strafes and artillery strikes can really punish OKW blobs, UKF Tactical support is especially good for this.

OKW all in all really aren't overly strong imo, Wehrmacht are in a much better position right now if you ask me. I think @Pereat covered most of everything else. XD

Is it me or does OKW have every little advantage you could get?

Strongest starting unit
Infantry that doesn't require to research weapons/nades (gets them from basic teching)
Being able to upgrade some infantry weapons in hostile territory
Infantry not dropping AI weapons on low models/wipes
Unique vet system
Most secure base structure defense that negates light vehicle base-rush
T0 raketen and AT options for almost all infantry later on (shrecks, fausts)
KT without using up a commander slot and no way to deny it by destroying the tech structures
Elite infantry (obers) without using up a commander slot
Overwatch doctrine with double abilities
Free AA building with teching that outranges infantry vision

Is there an aspect where they get the short end of the stick?

With strong generalist and specialist tanks and probably the best mobile artillery in the game they seem like a very low risk high reward faction.

My guess is that some of the things were balanced around not having a sniper (although having the option of one of the best anti sniper units in the form of JLI) but once snipers have been nerfed this faction was never adjusted.


I know people feel passionate about the faction they play but whats your honest opinion about this?

First of all, I suggest you not to listen to those with a german soliders icon on it.
OKW has been very OP from release and until now the balance is still skewed to axis due to the historical design problem and the major of community also.

Strongest starting unit

It is a no brainer unit that allow you to auto win any controversial point or buildings such as VP or fuel point which is very important in team game. Later on, it allow you and your ostheer teammate immediately turtleing around the fuel point such as digging a bunker and sandbags for volks to play statically without taking any risk. The early auto free fuel point is very decisive in team game.

Infantry that doesn't require to research weapons/nades (gets them from basic teching)

You will feel yourself more stupid when you have to get lolotov and AT nade from paying extra side tech cost which sum up is more expensive but conscript still being less efficient than volks in all aspect( especially no weapons upgrade). OKW also start with more MP (when include the cost of starting unit).
So yes, conscript need to get in line with them.

Being able to upgrade some infantry weapons in hostile territory

They are designed to be an defensive faction. They have less fuel income before the revamping.There is no reason for making a weapon rack design, because you can always allow the player to have two upgrade single weapon button on the squad to achieve the same thing. So this feature is another proof that the developer is axis favored and axis players can have better live and less micro while the USF player have to give up their line to upgrade their soldiers.

Infantry not dropping AI weapons on low models/wipes

Yes, another axis extra care. It is bullshit to say "imagine volks dropping their STG's next to Obersoldaten", because the axis player should lose the engagement probably if the volks drop their STG.And this allow axis player to preserve more munition for their op offmap.

Unique vet system

Historical problem. They should not have anymore, since they have no fuel penalty. Their max 5 stars should be equal to 3 stars of ally. So, this is another axis favored feature that still not being fixed at all.

Most secure base structure defense that negates light vehicle base-rush

Again, historical problem. It is simply bullshit to say "Because they have no (reliable)counters for an early light vehicle." How unreliable is it for having AT gun and faust and shercks on strum in the early game?If you don't get a bazooka or captain as USF. Even 222 and flame HT can base wipe you. So, this is another proof that axis players get extra care while they think they don't.

T0 raketen and AT options for almost all infantry later on (shrecks, fausts)

Raketen comes with camo. Although it has shorter range, but its camo and cheap price and ability to garrison absolutely compensate it. rek is not lock behind a captain and faust is not lock behind vet one with minimum range and extra time to launch and shreck isn't lock behind weapon rack that need extra micro and resource to pick it. So consider the time they release OKW with USF, yes it is still more care for axis player and a bit OP when compare to USF.

KT without using up a commander slot and no way to deny it by destroying the tech structures

Talking about its effectiveness is quite stupid, because it is all depending on players' hand but at least you get an extra option and choice to field a heavy. So yeah, another axis favored design.

Elite infantry (obers) without using up a commander slot

Yes, they are another axis favored feature. Again, at least you have an option. Just imagine if you are playing USF and you didn't pick a commander with elite infantry. Once your vetted infantry get wiped out, vet 0 rifleman are nowhere comparable to even vetted volks. So yes, Ober is another axis advantage that axis players try to persuade you they are not.

Overwatch doctrine with double abilities

Yes, they should be nerf like USF recon commander. But this game always take more time to nerf axis and we know why.

Free AA building with teching that outranges infantry vision

Historical problem again. But I agree it is mostly fine now.

OP, go play with OKM. Learn its not OP at all and it has many weaknesses too. Your PoV is mainly focused on their flexibility but that comes with a cost.
Each playstile is favoured by each faction desing. Maybe playing other faction might help aswell.

Consider balance as a complex word, it count oportunities, timings, costs, advantages and sacrifices, even in times you will have to dive and might loose, a single play can ruin you or you should persist trying. Each aspect makes up balance between factions

CoH2 is Asymmetrically balanced and OKW are probably the most Asymmetrically balanced faction of the bunch, so whilst it seems they have every little advantage. They also have several pretty critical flaws.

OKW always seem strong at a glance because all of their stuff is the best at just being thrown at a cap point. Their tanks have the best frontal armour and their infantry are the best for just running and gunning. So if you are also just running at the cap as well, they are gonna win every time, it's what they're designed for. Once you start playing smarter they kinda of fall apart due to their flaws.

1: They are extremely predictable, OKW will either spam volks early game rolling into a panzer 2 or flak-bus and LeiGs, or they will double sturm rush you if the map allows it. Then Late game... They gonna get panthers. If you see panzerfusiliers expect to deal with a Jagdtiger. You can prepare for all of these pretty easily.

Isn't it even more predictable when talking about USF? Just rifle, rifle and rifle.

2. Their roster is full of holes, the LeiG isn't as good against infantry as the mortar. They have no sniper, they can't get machine guns straight away and they have no assault infantry.

Pack howitzer is crying. Without the support of OKW T4 and T2 and have to face stuka in team game.
Pack howitzer is crying.

4. OKW don't deal well with suppression and have little of their own so an early .50 cal or maxim or even a vickers can set them back for ages (British though I'd advise building more Tommies over an MG as they're better than volks anyway).

leig smoke and volks flame nade and terminator stuka, really?

Obers cant engage mainline inf until vet?!? No they can hold their own against vet Tommies fine, but at vet 2 they straight up seal club any vet mainline inf in the game.

Hell you can even death loop a Vickers from long range once obers vet. Best inf in the game along with lmg paras

I just find that 3 non-upgraded volks can do the same to the vicker without full vision and cover while rifle can't do the same to MG42 without full vision and cover.

There's a lot to unpack in there. But the summary of it all, root cause style, is this:

They were designed as a totally different faction that had severe drawbacks to offset their buffs.

They have since been fixed, slowly, but retain legacy issues directly because of the original (awful) design.

Base defences were a thing back when they were expected to have next to no map control and a small number of elite units. These days, they have fausts early enough, light vehicles can be focused down and/or have been delayed/price increased. They have T0 racketens. They have zero reason to be more immune to base raids than the soviets or USF. But they always did, so they still do. If nothing else, at least they fixed them shooting down planes. Just like the T3, which still can... just because.
(Amusingly enough, their mainline infantry used to all be able to buy a shreck, so... frankly, even then, this design was stupid)

Vet 5 is the same thing. They used to be expected to have a huge resource penalty and make use of a small core of elite infantry. They were the pinnacle of the pants-backwards historical snubbing of 'if Axis survive to late game they are supposed to just win, hands down', because we all know Germany won WWII. Nonsense aside, it was a hideous design philosophy that people on the forums defended anyway. It has mostly gone away now, thank god, and the previously super broken vet levels are now mostly the same as other armies. But it's still an advantage for OKW mostly because of their previously hamstringed past.


Fill in the rest yourself. Once upon a time OKW were gimped by design. They took off the handcuffs and have very slowly been toning down their BS, but its a long road and there's not a lot of cash left for them to keep doing overhauls.

OKW always seem strong at a glance because all of their stuff is the best at just being thrown at a cap point. Their tanks have the best frontal armour and their infantry are the best for just running and gunning. So if you are also just running at the cap as well, they are gonna win every time, it's what they're designed for. Once you start playing smarter they kinda of fall apart due to their flaws.

This is the thing I was trying to highlight - it's very much in the hands of the allies to have to outplay OKW. All other things being equal axis come out on top. They can throw well trading units at you and wait for the late-game powerhouse.

This is the thing I was trying to highlight - it's very much in the hands of the allies to have to outplay OKW. All other things being equal axis come out on top. They can throw well trading units at you and wait for the late-game powerhouse.

You just gotta beat their bullshit with even more bullshit.
Early vehicle to avoid bleed, two MGs covering each other, medium tank spam.

You just gotta beat their bullshit with even more bullshit.
Early vehicle to avoid bleed, two MGs covering each other, medium tank spam.

Its a war based game, you know?
What were you planning to do? a tea party?

OP, i forgot to say one thing.
Dont start up forum wars upon calling again OKM OP, because half of the forums believe blindly it is, not even arguments are enough to calm down the mobs.

OKM had a single design idea, and not many liked it. They are effective, not efficient. Literally

Finally their main weakness is shown each time OKM makes a mistake, some allie fans will applaud that because sometimes its very hard to pull off and a cautious OKM player is far more dangerous than a recklessnes one

Obers cant engage mainline inf until vet?!? No they can hold their own against vet Tommies fine, but at vet 2 they straight up seal club any vet mainline inf in the game.

Hell you can even death loop a Vickers from long range once obers vet. Best inf in the game along with lmg paras

We all know that Vet2 Obers are the best AI inf, but we can't disagree with the fact that they can struggle a little when they first come out. But once they get that vet, they're monsters as they should be.

Isn't it even more predictable when talking about USF? Just rifle, rifle and rifle.


Pack howitzer is crying. Without the support of OKW T4 and T2 and have to face stuka in team game.
Pack howitzer is crying.




leig smoke and volks flame nade and terminator stuka, really?

USF have a little more shakeup in the early game, you can triple rifle, double mortar, grab an early fighting position, rechelon flamers etc. I agree with the midgame though, the midgame is .50 cals and that's it. Especially with the recent buffs to the doctrines though, USF have a lot more opener choices, at least in my opinion.

Pack Howie is a great unit, and the stuka comes out too late to deal with double mortar though and it means they delay armour so you can use that to your advantage. Issue with pack howie is it requires the additional tech now and the mortar is really good anyway.

As for LeiG smoke incendiary pushes, it requires LeiGs which means less infantry, so time to put the pressure on as they will have less men than you. As USF you really may as well be using 2 .50 cals against OKW blobs, and if they do smoke you, just redeploy the MG elsewhere. Also if they're building LeiGs it means they aren't building more squads, giving you the numerical advantage, again something volksgrenadiers rely on having. Also they won't have an MG to stop you pushing if they have a LeiG out early.

As for Obers, Obers are powerful but they bleed like hell and can't fight CQC which means by building obers OKW are giving up one of their main advantages over you that they have as it means they don't trade as favourably anymore.

This is the thing I was trying to highlight - it's very much in the hands of the allies to have to outplay OKW. All other things being equal axis come out on top. They can throw well trading units at you and wait for the late-game powerhouse.

I totally get what you mean and it can be extremely frustrating, however I do think think whilst it is always in the hands of the allies to outplay the axis, I do think the allies have more tools to allow them to do so (Demo charges and better assault infantry as well as some really clutch support powers). It's one of the reasons I find allies so enjoyable as it feels so much more rewarding. However I agree particularly on certain maps, axis play style seems far more favoured.

I would make a big post but I'm lazy.

one thing I have to say though is how effective AND good vets on volks makes all the difference. Healing on mainline infantry? REALLY?!

but at the same time, if you lose a vetted volks you are screwed since fighting mainline allied infantry when you have no vet is painful.

Can you make this kind of point about OKW when USF after LT/CPT changes is basically low risk high reward faction as well? Same with Brits after they got a snare.

WFA factions were all designed with gimmicks and flaws in mind to keep them feeling different from Ost and Sov, but those gimmicks were either too strong (okw 5 vet) or crippling (usf choice between MG or AT gun) and were all homogenized eventually, as result pretty much all WFA faction ended up being low-risk high reward, while Ost and Sov stuck with their issues and thats really a lelic fault, instead of unique factions they created unique gimmicks for bland factions and those gimmicks are all gone by now because there were no way to balance them properly

Words

I disagree with nearly everything you said in your post and I urge you to watch some tournament replays and read the patchnotes to inform yourself on the current state of the game.

And yes, I am an allied main by game count.