Riflemen field defenses

Why does this ability grant mines to riflemen at 3x planting time instead of giving it to RE at normal planting time? I guess its because of the name so i suggest "field defenses" as replacement. These mines barely see any use, i noticed it while spectating some high level games: ass engies mines are being used all the time (normal planting speed) while the riflemen mines are being spotted almost everytime during planting . Would that make too much sense to give mines to usf "engineer" unit (of course only doctrinaly)?

I completely agree. I've been working on improving my USF play. One of the perks of going a commander with Field Defense is the ability to plant mines. Especially with riflemen as their mine seems more powerful than RE's (not sure thats backed by stats or not). I have noticed my riflement get caught mid plant a lot more than my engi's. I mostly play 4v4 so there are more units on the field in general. However I'm open to and would like to hear the logic on why it should take longer for them to plant their mines. Esepecially to my knowledge they are not stronger than Wehr/soviet mines.

I completely agree. I've been working on improving my USF play. One of the perks of going a commander with Field Defense is the ability to plant mines. Especially with riflemen as their mine seems more powerful than RE's (not sure thats backed by stats or not). I have noticed my riflement get caught mid plant a lot more than my engi's. I mostly play 4v4 so there are more units on the field in general. However I'm open to and would like to hear the logic on why it should take longer for them to plant their mines. Esepecially to my knowledge they are not stronger than Wehr/soviet mines.

I think they take longer to plant because you usually have 3/4 rifle squads as opposed to 1 engineer squad. But in my opinion mines should not be available on mainline infantry to begin with, thats why i created this thread. Sadly seems like people dont really care about improving badly designed and overcomplicated abilities in usf faction.

I agree that something needs to be done about these mines. They either need to have a quicker plant time or put on REs. The problem with putting them on REs is that the light AT mine was just added the last patch and this would step on that. I think that the mines as is our rarely used because it takes so long to plant.

"Riflemen" field defenses, therefore they're on riflemen. Can't be fast plant time otherwise they'd be spammed.

/thread

"Riflemen" field defenses, therefore they're on riflemen. Can't be fast plant time otherwise they'd be spammed.

/thread

So its just because of name? Good, now all we need is to change name to "field defenses" and we can make this ability good.

I feel like the argument that they can be 'spammed' because they are a core infantry unit is a bit of a moot point. The said riflemen would/should be upgrading it's weapons to deal with either infantry or armour threats whilst (at least in my case) throwing grenades this way and that.

Infantry Company and Heavy Cav Company are muni sinks in themselves with whitephos from the mortar HT's LMG's, Thompsons on rangers and combined arms. This isn't a bad thing, it's just play styles.

Of course the beauty of coh2 is that there is a choice, I could spend 120 munitions on four mines or I could double BAR, or I could save for ToT or combined arms.

Armour Company can build mines at regular speeds (yes they are engineers, so that makes sense) and yet unless you build 3 or 4 As.Engi's and bank a lot of munitions you still are not spamming mines (depends on what you constitute as mine spam I suppose).

Soviet defensive Doct, and Tank hunter Doc CAN spam mines, albeit light mines which aren't generic (unless you build a field of light AT mines and put a flare in the middle, that's great fun).

Finally, I'm beginning to wonder if the extra deploy time is residual from when riflemen could plant the light mines (not generic m7's) because even with this delayed deployment they could still be installed quickly. Where as the m7 has a default longer deployment time and now there is the multiplier on top (theory crafting however, I have no proof)

I would like to see the plant time decrease for Riflemen. USF can be a muni heavy faction and spaming mine means no LMGs, nades, MGs on Shermans & arty strikes.

Having models dropped increases the build time for any unit in the game ( I think) but having a model or two dropped on the rifleman exacerbates the longevity to the point where its pointless to try and even build a mine. Might as well be fighting with the unit.

"Riflemen" field defenses, therefore they're on riflemen. Can't be fast plant time otherwise they'd be spammed.

/thread

Agreed but I would add that I think 3X is still a touch too long. I think it could be reduced somewhat without becoming too toxic but not at Engineer speed - there will always be munitions gating and actively forgoing BARs if you really wanted to spam mines. Either that or reducing the plant time and making them AI only or limiting the model kill to 1 or something for a cost reduction.

So its just because of name? Good, now all we need is to change name to "field defenses" and we can make this ability good.

We don’t change ability names. Thus we’d be creating new abilities.

I just dont understand why even such basic thing like planting mines must be extra complicated for usf faction. Giving it to REs at normal speed would be easy and logical thing that would improve gameplay without adding anything broken(like jli, ass engies, sector assault etc.). The ability is present in only 2 commanders, at this point people arguing against giving it to REs just want to see this ability NOT being used. Dont even want to explain why relegating riflemen to planting mines duty, when they barely can hold line against volks and jli hords, is bad idea.

I voted for giving rifleman a standard build time , but at the very least the ability should give RE's the standard mine and open up the opportunity for riflemen to build the light mine. Being able to secure your flanks, with the Infantry company at least, is crucial and mines are the key to doing that.

"Riflemen" field defenses, therefore they're on riflemen. Can't be fast plant time otherwise they'd be spammed.

/thread

Defensive doctrine's s-mine planting volks says hi and exclamate "Deutschland uber alles!"

Defensive doctrine's s-mine planting volks says hi and exclamate "Deutschland uber alles!"

? Fortifications includes that? The point is, Volks s-mine spam is aids to play against, people don't want more aids things to play against. They just want their faction to be the one using the abusive crap.

I'm still failing to see how reducing the deployment time of a generic mine from mindbogglingly long to acceptable for a non-engineering squad would be the sole reason for spamming. You can spam mines right now as USF rifles, the cost is still the same, it just takes an extra 5 seconds or so. reducing the time would lead to the mines being planted quicker, but someone who is going to spam mines is going to do it regardless.

It's probably because, given you used to usually have three to four Rifleman squads, it'd let USF lay mines very fast because they can lay them in parallel.

Speeding up the time wouldn't be gamebreaking, but it'd let Heavy Cav and Infantry companies lay down a lot of mines pretty fast.