Convince me that it's a bad idea with a 1 sniper limit

The problems with the best counter to the sniper being another sniper are:

• It doesn't work against a more skilled sniper player, who'll countersnipe your countersniper.
  
• It forces you into sniper play. A lot of players loathe both using and fighting snipers.
  
• USF and OKW don't get snipers.

whuut?

1. so why should a player be punished to master a micro nightmare?

2. and? there are many counters to a single model unit.

3. USf have 6Man untis with double bars... even if the sniper player manage to kill 2 Modells the Rifles will fuck him up and he HAVE to retreat or die. There are also enough other options... mortars LV and so on.

OKW have 5Man wich also force them to retreat if run straight into him.
U can get the leiG or go for T2 wich completly stop them from being effective on the field.

In the Midgame the sniper gets worse and worse, by than there are 1000 things on the field wich wipe him easy and there are more units to micro... there is no time to "perfectly" micro this unit when u have 2 Tanks 2 Mgs Morter and a lot of inf to work with.

I said 'best'. Not 'only'.

Light vehicle dives also work, but there's a high risk of trading off or outright losing your vehicle and you're utterly at the mercy of the your vehicle of choice's RNGcannons.

Mortars are too random to be reliable sniper counter.

The problems with the best counter to the sniper being another sniper are:

• It doesn't work against a more skilled sniper player, who'll countersnipe your countersniper.
  
• It forces you into sniper play. A lot of players loathe both using and fighting snipers.
  
• USF and OKW don't get snipers.

If removing countersniping would turn snipers into a nightmare then what that says to me is the other counterplays to sniper use are inadequate.

It'd be like the only viable counter to a medium tank being another medium tank with superior micro.



What's needed is a way to soft-counter snipers.

Countersniping doesn't worked vs better players?! What kind of stupid argument is that? Better players don't deserve to win?! Take away snipers and the better player will easily find another way to beat u. Sometimes the whole point of getting a sniper is to make the enemy uncomfortable. "Forces players into sniper play." LOL. Sometimes, that's the point. I'm sure everybody has a unit they particularly hate. GET USED TO IT. Relic can't balance EVERY unit! I use snipers to contain blobs especially UKF and OKW blobs (USF/SU blobs are better thwarted with overlapped mgs.) A-moving blobbing noobs simply want to use their blob to get squad wipes but well microed snipers can keep outside their range and bleed them out. Then these noobs wonder why they're losing and complain on the forums. All they know is a-move. Ambushing snipers? Not a clue. USF and OKW don't have snipers but both factions get the most efficient early game infantry hence they have great potential for superior map control early game. Outcapping a sniper opponent is one way to soft counter snipers. Hence you can rush a light vehicle and make that sniper (and the rest of hte infantry) a lot harder to use.

I kind of like all your ideas

but the multi-model squad one is the one you didn't like from before

Setup time and bonus range is my personal favourite. It makes them a little better as scouts, it makes them much safer at bleeding team weapons (what I believe they were designed for in the first place) and there's just something aesthetically satisfying about that little setup bar.

It also might make snipers a little more about sticking them in a good position like a team weapon and less about A-move kiting. Difficult to predict without testing though.

but the multi-model squad one is the one you didn't like from before

I believe I said that I didn't like the multi-model sniper if they worked the same way as snipers work now. As a recon model it might be fine (If said differently earlier, then either this is what I meant or I changed my mind and refuse to admit it )

During the Devm vs Hans match on GCS2, Devms sniper had over 70 kills and that didn't stop him from losing the game anyway.

I think the sniper is more a psychological tool than a manpower bleed one, if you know to play around it. Continuous blob-charging the maps center isn't effective, sniper or not.

During the Devm vs Hans match on GCS2, Devms sniper had over 70 kills and that didn't stop him from losing the game anyway.

I think the sniper is more a psychological tool than a manpower bleed one, if you know to play around it. Continuous blob-charging the maps center isn't effective, sniper or not.

Well as I mentioned earlier I don't think a single sniper is the problem in itself. It's the fact that you can double up and a-move them around in a group for double damage with only marginally more micro involved. Especially against factions with 4-man squads, this is extremely punishing in terms of keeping field presence.

Well as I mentioned earlier I don't think a single sniper is the problem in itself. It's the fact that you can double up and a-move them around in a group for double damage with only marginally more micro involved. Especially against factions with 4-man squads, this is extremely punishing in terms of keeping field presence.

Next meta: 4 soviet snipers insta-wipping grenadiers

But really, I think it's too much a MP investment. You delay things™ so much that you risk getting rushed by LV and losing both snipers. Or countersniped. If you're OST you have snares available to stop the LV, but then you had to invest MP on two snipers and your gren is babysitting it. You have little to none map control. Your AT gun will come too late to stop whatever LV is being thrown at you, or an entire tier being skipped for early armor.

Next meta: 4 soviet snipers insta-wipping grenadiers

But really, I think it's too much a MP investment. You delay things™ so much that you risk getting rushed by LV and losing both snipers. Or countersniped. If you're OST you have snares available to stop the LV, but then you had to invest MP on two snipers and your gren is babysitting it. You have little to none map control. Your AT gun will come too late to stop whatever LV is being thrown at you, or an entire tier being skipped for early armor.

Not necessarily. Apart from countersnipe, light vechiles are the only serious threat against snipers, and they have a fairly short window of relevance (and even then you have to gamble when going for a base dive against retreating snipers), so in that regard the 720 mp investment can quickly become relevant and the lack of capping power is quickly handled by forcing the 4 man squads to immediately retreat after the first sniper volley.

I'm not saying it can't be countered, but it's not necessarily easy and it makes for some quite unfunny games with more focus on luck than on test of skill.