I'm done with thread all about random ideas and opinions, we delve in stats and facts so here a very simple proposal :
the pathfinders are considered fair and balanced (even sightly UP) by the community
so the most logical change is to make the JLI more similar to them
the change I propose is to reduce the crit threshold to 50% (pathfinder have 40%), giving them another sniper rifle(pathfinder have 2) and increasing the cost of the upgrade to 60 mun
the JLI like this would have lower dps than pathfinders (check here to compare https://coh2db.com/stats/#34) while having sightly higher crit threshold
pathfinder sniper rifle have double the dps at long range than the JLI one (and still have the option to add BARs too)
if need some received accuracy vet could be toned down
edit: since we are here giving the 0.9 bonus accuracy to pathfinder sniper rifle would make them more viable too
realistical nerf for JLI
21 Jan 2019, 15:14 PM
#1
Posts: 4474
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
21 Jan 2019, 15:16 PM
#2
Posts: 600
damn boy, there are 20 other forum posts about jli. Everyone in this forum got it by now.
21 Jan 2019, 15:18 PM
#3
Posts: 4474
damn boy, there are 20 other forum posts about jli. Everyone in this forum got it by now.yes but I'm done with people not backing their claim with facts/stats,this is not an RPG, this is a strategy game
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
21 Jan 2019, 16:00 PM
#4
Posts: 3053
I like it. I'd add that .9 acuracy against cover with the g43(s) would need to go too though.
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21 Jan 2019, 16:03 PM
#5
Posts: 3260
If you made this change the 0.9 accuracy vs cover on the sniper rifles would definitely have to go. That and their very low cost (250 MP) are the main two problems with them.
21 Jan 2019, 16:11 PM
#6
Posts: 4474
If you made this change the 0.9 accuracy vs cover on the sniper rifles would definitely have to go. That and their very low cost (250 MP) are the main two problems with them.they pay for the sniper rifle unlike pathfinder so the cost is fair, the 0.9 accuracy on the sniper rifle while in cover doesn't do much, i would instead add it to pathfinder too
people are making it more than it supposed to be, the okw sniper rifle deal very low damage, the 0.9 accuracy buff is just used to confirm the crit while the enemy is in cover
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
21 Jan 2019, 16:12 PM
#7
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
And make them pop from base no more infiltration building style.
21 Jan 2019, 16:59 PM
#8
Posts: 810
infiltration building style : 3-man and can reinforce 1 more(=infiltration commando)
nerf MP cost 250-> 300
crit threshold to 60%
heavy cover accuracy 90% ->70%
nerf MP cost 250-> 300
crit threshold to 60%
heavy cover accuracy 90% ->70%
21 Jan 2019, 18:00 PM
#9
Posts: 600
"infiltration building style : 3-man and can reinforce 1 more(=infiltration commando)"
doesnt make sense to me. Commandos used to pop behind enemy crews and instantly decrewed them without being punished for it. thats why they lost a man and the ability to instantly throw nades. JLI doesnt do that, do they.
"nerf MP cost 250-> 300"
nerf them this hard and still increase their cost? why not delete the unit at all
they went from not used to being overused just to be nerfed into not being used again
i dont see that many commandos anymore neither
doesnt make sense to me. Commandos used to pop behind enemy crews and instantly decrewed them without being punished for it. thats why they lost a man and the ability to instantly throw nades. JLI doesnt do that, do they.
"nerf MP cost 250-> 300"
nerf them this hard and still increase their cost? why not delete the unit at all
they went from not used to being overused just to be nerfed into not being used again
i dont see that many commandos anymore neither
21 Jan 2019, 18:12 PM
#10
Posts: 810
"infiltration building style : 3-man and can reinforce 1 more(=infiltration commando)"
doesnt make sense to me. Commandos used to pop behind enemy crews and instantly decrewed them without being punished for it. thats why they lost a man and the ability to instantly throw nades. JLI doesnt do that, do they.
"nerf MP cost 250-> 300"
nerf them this hard and still increase their cost? why not delete the unit at all
they went from not used to being overused just to be nerfed into not being used again
i dont see that many commandos anymore neither
So u still want to spam JLI?
250mp is too cheap and infiltration unit in 1cp is too fast
JLI received "overbuff"
The reason they were not used well was not because JLI was weak, but since Ostwind turned into a production unit in Tier 3(scavenge doctrine)
21 Jan 2019, 18:23 PM
#11
Posts: 600
The only reason why people use jli is because they are overperforming for their price and come in early enough to replace volks.
What do they have except their snipe and bonus vs cover. Have you ever seen someone boobytrap a point? Me neither.
They dont have at, they are fragile. Increase the price and make them come later and noone will spam them and even if they do it doesnt really matter but nerf them AND increase their price and they will jsut be another unused call in like Panzerfusiliers and Fallschirmjägers which arent really worth getting over Volkterminators. In the meantime Guards and Shocks keep ruling infantry engagements
What do they have except their snipe and bonus vs cover. Have you ever seen someone boobytrap a point? Me neither.
They dont have at, they are fragile. Increase the price and make them come later and noone will spam them and even if they do it doesnt really matter but nerf them AND increase their price and they will jsut be another unused call in like Panzerfusiliers and Fallschirmjägers which arent really worth getting over Volkterminators. In the meantime Guards and Shocks keep ruling infantry engagements
21 Jan 2019, 18:29 PM
#12
Posts: 3260
they pay for the sniper rifle unlike pathfinder so the cost is fair, the 0.9 accuracy on the sniper rifle while in cover doesn't do much, i would instead add it to pathfinder too
people are making it more than it supposed to be, the okw sniper rifle deal very low damage, the 0.9 accuracy buff is just used to confirm the crit while the enemy is in cover
It's a multiplier to accuracy versus cover, and it's almost always 0.5. 0.9 is huge.
Give it to Pathfinders too and you'll just create more problem units.
21 Jan 2019, 18:42 PM
#13
Posts: 3053
they pay for the sniper rifle unlike pathfinder so the cost is fair, the 0.9 accuracy on the sniper rifle while in cover doesn't do much, i would instead add it to pathfinder too
people are making it more than it supposed to be, the okw sniper rifle deal very low damage, the 0.9 accuracy buff is just used to confirm the crit while the enemy is in cover
In my opinion the .9 accuracy against cover is one of the most glaring problems with the unit. It negates a lot of the usefulness of cover since the sniper can knock off models even when they're in cover almost as well as when they're out in the open. Infantry being able to ignore cover means that good play is not incentivized against them and a better counter is to just blob up superior numbers and facerush them, which isn't really enjoyable for either side and isn't what this game is supposed to be about. I'd be against it being aded for pathfinders too since I think it's just in general a bad mechanic, especialy when given to the crit rifles.
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21 Jan 2019, 20:26 PM
#14
Posts: 4474
infiltration building style : 3-man and can reinforce 1 more(=infiltration commando)
nerf MP cost 250-> 300
crit threshold to 60%
heavy cover accuracy 90% ->70%
please take path finder as reference what u are saying is that they should strictly be worse than pathfinder in cost, performance, versatility and damage
do u understand how stupid that sound ? please play some other faction too before u write or at least read the stat page i linked above
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
21 Jan 2019, 20:29 PM
#15
Posts: 4474
the 0.9 bonus was given exactly for that, so they could still snipe model in cover like a normal sniper, that's the point of the sniper rifle, in my opinions it does not create that much of a problem, it's not like the old ober STG that ignored cover and dealt tons of damage
In my opinion the .9 accuracy against cover is one of the most glaring problems with the unit. It negates a lot of the usefulness of cover since the sniper can knock off models even when they're in cover almost as well as when they're out in the open. Infantry being able to ignore cover means that good play is not incentivized against them and a better counter is to just blob up superior numbers and facerush them, which isn't really enjoyable for either side and isn't what this game is supposed to be about. I'd be against it being aded for pathfinders too since I think it's just in general a bad mechanic, especialy when given to the crit rifles.
it's just used for crit confirmation,giving it to pathfinder would make them more viable too, in the first place they are supposed to "replace" the sniper of the other factions, do u see sniper missing while the enemy is in cover ?
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
21 Jan 2019, 20:46 PM
#16
Posts: 3053
the 0.9 bonus was given exactly for that, so they could still snipe model in cover like a normal sniper, that's the point of the sniper rifle, in my opinions it does not create that much of a problem, it's not like the old ober STG that ignored cover and dealt tons of damage
it's just used for crit confirmation,giving it to pathfinder would make them more viable too, in the first place they are supposed to "replace" the sniper of the other factions, do u see sniper missing while the enemy is in cover ?
In theory, that makes sense. In practice, it negates cover and just incentivizes blobbing on both sides (on the allied side to make up for the fact that you can't use cover and will lose at any range except point blank because of it and on the axis side to counter the allied blob). Real snipers are slightly different since they're only 1 man with a garbage target size, so you at least have to support it or kite with it. A lot of people actually hate snipers as a rule since they do ignore cover as you pointed out (I personally don't agree with it to an extent but I just wanted to bring up the sentiment). I defintely don't think an actual infantry squad should be able to do it with the crit kill.
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21 Jan 2019, 22:24 PM
#17
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
the 0.9 bonus was given exactly for that, so they could still snipe model in cover like a normal sniper, that's the point of the sniper rifle, in my opinions it does not create that much of a problem, it's not like the old ober STG that ignored cover and dealt tons of damage
it's just used for crit confirmation,giving it to pathfinder would make them more viable too, in the first place they are supposed to "replace" the sniper of the other factions, do u see sniper missing while the enemy is in cover ?
Care to remember us why 2men Soviet squad sniper was nerf? And now 4men squad sniper is ok.
21 Jan 2019, 22:28 PM
#18
Posts: 810
please take path finder as reference what u are saying is that they should strictly be worse than pathfinder in cost, performance, versatility and damage
do u understand how stupid that sound ? please play some other faction too before u write or at least read the stat page i linked above
I also play OKW and always feeling JLI is stupidly OP
Are u play other faction too?
21 Jan 2019, 22:30 PM
#19
Posts: 4474
i play the soviet the most i just can't deal with random 4 men squad wipe it tilts me
I also play OKW and always feeling JLI is stupidly OP
Are u play other faction too?
but yes i play all factions usf especially after the tier rework, i'm finally free to take at gun and cal 50
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
21 Jan 2019, 22:33 PM
#20
Posts: 4474
that's different, the snipe only works at 50% or lower and they don't have 50 range, that's why i say it's more fair, 90 % of other units if they start at 100 % hp will beat path finder or JLI with equal investment
Care to remember us why 2men Soviet squad sniper was nerf? And now 4men squad sniper is ok.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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