So people are still okay with Sturmpios?

Jump back to quoted post21 Dec 2018, 08:09 AMFelixTHM

So if you're not capping and he's not capping, what's the difference? When he eventually retreats he needs to spend one year running back to base, while you get back to yours in 15 seconds. Mainly though I'd suggest sending your CE to cap elsewhere instead of using CE as mainline infantry.

I think the name "combat engineer" confuses too many people. They're primarily utility/engineering units. Without considering the flamethrower, I use CEs to wire, sweep and lay mines, repair vehicles, and cap less traversed areas of the map. It's the same as the Rear Echelon "problem". Some players simply don't understand the role of a utility unit, and expect REs to hold their own vs Grens and Volks.

Sturmpios are tough enough to hold the line as early/mid game assault units but in exchange they cost 80% more mp. When a sturmpio is using up his squad time sweeping/laying mines, wiring, and repairing vehicles, you're basically using a 300mp unit to do the same thing a 170mp unit does. By mid-game, the sturmpio will be overtaxed, and coupled with the increased cost, those are the counterbalances to the early game superiority the squad enjoys.

Jump back to quoted post21 Dec 2018, 08:09 AMFelixTHM

So if you're not capping and he's not capping, what's the difference? When he eventually retreats he needs to spend one year running back to base, while you get back to yours in 15 seconds.

Jump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 20:03 PMSkysTheLimit

Talking to people is subjective. That's the whole point. But whatever you say...

Here's another way to ask the question about sturms, does OKW need them as a starter? What would be so horrible about them starting with Volks instead?

Not saying they wouldn't need to adjust starting MP or some other things, but Sturm opening has always felt dumb when Pios, CEs, and REs are 3 of the other starters.

Jump back to quoted post21 Dec 2018, 17:25 PMRocket

Why do sturms need to be so potent period? no one else starter units are and that faction survives?, volks might not be the strongest starting infantry but they are in no way weak, they are cheap and super hard to deal with in early garrisons. Usually okw can afford more squads at the start anyway with 4x volk openings. The fact they do not need to build anything at the start of the game is even more reason why they do not need to be so potent. make them weaker but cheaper adjust okw starting mp for it.

Jump back to quoted post21 Dec 2018, 17:41 PMgbem

well volks are actually the second most cost efficient infantry stock (penal) and the most cost efficient infantry upgraded... cheap to make and cheap to reinforce... they beat rifles at long range IS at short range and conscripts at long to mid range...can build sandbags... get a really good incendiary nade for anti garrison... get free fausts with tech and free incendiary nades with the sws truck...

the only reason why that cost efficiency isnt OP is because rifles and IS are individually stronger which gives them an edge in individual engagements in exchange for lower field presence...

as for sturms idk... i havent really had a problem with sturms as usf as i can chew them up with rifles or assault engies pretty fast... only a sov T2 build really has problems with sturms and thats another can of worms entirely... nah my real fear with USF is the rakatenwerfer... that thing is the number one ambulance killer bar none...

Jump back to quoted post21 Dec 2018, 17:51 PMStug life

false they have almost the same dps at long range and rifleman get reduced RA from base, stg vs bar they lose both at long and close range (at long stg deal 3 (1.5x2) dps while bar 4 and they have 1 more rifle)

Jump back to quoted post21 Dec 2018, 17:52 PMmortiferum

Never found sturms to be good other than if you manage to intercept lone squads moving from spawn to the front, or if you managed to flank a team weapon.

if you are in a firefight with 2 rifles against volks, and a sturm pio flanks, you can usually just switch targets and focus that sturmpioneer down fairly quickly.

Jump back to quoted post21 Dec 2018, 18:24 PMgbem

havent tested it yet... but long range green on green engagements at the end of the viewrange has ended with volksgrenadier victory when ive played... will conduct more thorough testing soontm