P2W whine thread.

They seem to have "raised" the youngins well... they will gladly pay for everything without considering it's value.

So very true these days.

I can't believe you people. You're seriously complaining about having to pay $12 for FOUR BRAND NEW commanders and units? They've been out for a few days and people are screaming 'P2W!!!!'. If it was seriously that bad, you would cough up $12 which is less than lunch where I live and get these 'super uber OP commanders who win every game'. But you won't because you know that aren't that 'OP' and all you're doing is complaining like a bunch of children who think you're entitled to everything for free.

This has very little to do with P2W. I'm confident that as time goes along, these things will be balanced - Relic have been great at sorting out balance so far, and I've loved every patch that came out since. At no point do I ever think that a guy like me, who will only ever have the very few original commanders, will stand absolutely no chance in the greater metagame. On the contrary though, if they were insanely OP, doesn't mean I'm going to buy them. It means I'd stop playing until I was sure the balance was fixed. I'm not of the insane mindset where I'll liberally throw my money out at anything so long as it improves my game - regardless of whether it even holds that value.

How do you propose Relic and SEGA continue making their money from CoH2? You think they make games for the fun of it? Why would they continue to patch the game, keep it balanced, fix bugs, continue making new maps, new commanders and new units, if they aren't making any money from the game? That means they are literally working for FREE.

They wouldn't be working for free. You see, how this works for other games, is that they understand one thing: There are always more customers. Take a look at how many gamers regular Steam, for example, and you could consider a good portion of those to be potential buyers. That's a lot of money. If you want to make more money, then get new customers. Don't dime your old ones; This is even worse of an idea when the community isn't as large as other known RTS'. Get a reputation as a solid game, with good support - Which is expected these days, I'm afraid. This isn't the early 90s where the lack of constant internet connectivity meant updating games just wasn't viable, and so it wasn't done. If they carry on like this, they could well doom their own game, because people like me, since Case Blue, have had nothing nice to say about their money-grabbing approach.

Now, how about they make skins cheaper? add infantry skins, on top of that. Add more skins. Add skin-packs for entire armies, or just buy individual skins for unit classes if we wanted. Customisation is a huge thing, and while some of us won't go crazy on the skins, others will. Then there'd be those of us who would buy some every now and then just to support the Company.

They shouldn't really be selling faceplates, but make them drop on small chance at the end of games, or maybe each month, set a series of secret challenges for players to achieve, and at the end of the month, bring in a few new ones. Things like this will bolster the community, and offer an extra facet of addictive play for people. this would very well attract new customers. And if you remember the formula, More Customers = More Money, then you'll realise that this would be good.

You can't expect a company to continuing give you updates and new features for free. You paid for a game with a campaign and multiplayer functionality and everything else the game promised when you purchased it - you get that. You did not pay for these new commanders. You did not even pay for the new maps (which they gave for free).

I can expect it. Furthermore, I was promised a game rich in variety, full of all these different commanders who alter my tactics each time. I've brought the game, and you know what? It's conscript spam, into T-70s, a few T-34s and finishing off with Su-85s. Every. Time. I didn't get variety when I bought this game, instead, all I got was the platform to add variety to. And at what very well seems to be like an endless cost, as more Commanders get released. And I'm sure relic managed to convince Sega that dividing their community by charging for maps would be even more detrimental than what they've done with the commanders.

I am actually more than happy to pay for these new commanders because I want relic to continue to release new commanders, new units, new maps and keep the game patched. If you continue to complain about this bullshit you will literally break down this game to the point that it becomes dead and deserted. Game developers simply cannot continue to support a game and continue to enhance it if they are making a loss on it (people do not work for free, as I am sure the developers at Relic do not).

I'm happy to pay for new units too. But, It would have to be in an expansion, for me. Expansions are where I spend a definite amount of money, and receive a definite amount of content. this model, I have no idea how much I might need to spend on this game in the next year - or worse, the next five years of which they've stated that they'll be committing to the game. Can you answer me that? No, and I shouldn't be asking for it in the first place, when I already paid for this game. I shouldn't have to be paying for what is really, necessary content.

Game developers have previously made their money through expansions and it is a TERRIBLE idea. What ends up happening is - New expansion comes out - new factions, new maps, new campaign etc. Game balance complete fucked. Oh well, lets wait it out for a new expansion. And the cycle continues.

I don't remember it quite like this. And i believe releasing expansions to games was a pretty great way to make money. It's sort of why games still do it. It's like the sequel, but needing less manpower. Where you get the impression that releasing expansions was a terrible idea, I don't know. Warcraft 3 did excellently from it, for example. Or the original Starcraft. That game had good balance, and support. And you know what? I didn't have to pay for premium fees, new maps, or the support it got. do you know why these games did well? because they, or their predecessor, made a -very- good game, where you didn't have to pay extra for your mundane copy, vanilla-copy, to become great, with added units, or balances. Te sequels follow this pattern, a clearly successful one, and it brought in new customers, it earned the game critical acclaim, and then more people bought it, and more money was earned. So long a a game continues to be great, and not reeking of money-grabbing hustling, then a game will do excellently. Anyone who now buys this game, and sees that variety is lacking, cannot sit there and say to their friends "yeah, but just buy it any wya. they'll be releasing new content that'll make this what it should be!", instead., they'll think "fuck it", and play something else, and warn their friends that they won't be able to enjoy the game to its fullest, without paying hell of a lot more. That definitely doesn't earn you new customers.

Now, once broadband came about, a great deal of games would update their games post-release. Not to the extent we expect now-a-days, but such is what the customer wants, and such is what the game developers did. That was until someone decided to start charging for it.

Do you want this to happen to CoH2? I sure as hell don't. So either scrape together the $12 you have in the ashtray in your car or shut the hell up.

I refuse to support a company who doesn't see me as their avid supporter, and fan, but instead has dollar signs in their eyes. they won't get even a penny, so long as they continue with this incredibly greedy approach. And I don't care if it causes the Company that I loved up until a few days ago to go bust. I want a business model like this to fail, because if it doesn't, then it will only mean other games will start to do it, too. And that would be bad. Can you imagine how poor you'd be if you had to dish out such huge charges for every game you actively play?

No one owes you anything. Relic have already given us heaps of free shit and it's the first thing they release that requires the smallest bit of money and you can't handle it. Grow up.

Growing up has very little to do with it, and your attitude has no consideration of what are very real, and very well voiced (aide from certain rages) concerns from people who only speak up because they love the game, and Relic just as much as you do. You are a fool if you think this content is worth the money they charge, and even more a fool when you believe that you have the upper ground, just because you're, what, rich enough, stupid enough, to pay for, it seems, whatever they throw at you. If they created DLC with lobbies in it, would you buy it? I mean, it's a feature that improves the game to a great extent, and your money would be supporting the Company. But, hold on, wait. that should already be in the game for free. Just like all the units, and the Commanders that should've come with the game when I already bought it.

This is not a MOBA, or a MMO, and you can't just charge for core content. But, hell, even then games like LoL don't make heroes inaccessible without in-game currency, and from what I've heard, what with rewards for first-wins-of-the-day, and other daily achievements, getting the heroes you want isn't that hard. Of course, that game is free to play, so I don't expect Relic to come out with a special currency called Nazi-Gold, and we start earning that for every game we win - just to unlock content we ought to already have.

Even Guild Wars 2, which you pay to play, doesn't do something as stupid as charge you for core content, such as weapons, dungeons, new zones. And it doesn't even have subscription charges. And you can still by all the fluffy items, like town clothes and other pointless items, with in-game gold. Guild Wars 2 is doing great.

Any sensible game knows that being labelled "P2W" is deadly, and whether or not it's entirely accurately applied to coH2, this is what it is being labelled as - because it's pretty damned close.

@Scerun: +1.

Someone sticky this guy's post.

Of course, that game is free to play, so I don't expect Relic to come out with a special currency called Nazi-Gold, and we start earning that for every game we win - just to unlock content we ought to already have.

Wouldn't it be Stolen Jew Gold? Or Nazi-plunder? For Soviets, The People's Gold? Each side could have its own to unlock each sides commanders.

Wouldn't it be Stolen Jew Gold? Or Nazi-plunder? For Soviets, The People's Gold? Each side could have its own to unlock each sides commanders.

interesting names... but not what i want to see in coh2 lol

@Scerun

+1

A lot of posts here deserved to be stickied.

OMG 4 NEW COMMANDERS!!!11!!!!1

You do realize that $12 is 20% the cost of the entire game? 20% of the total cost of a game with around 12 hours a campaign, a similar numbers of hours worth of ToW, however many maps we have now, and 2 factions. The amount of effort that went in to making 4 more commanders is <1% the amount of effort that went in to scripting the missions, making the maps, designing/balancing factions, programming the engine, designing the unit models, designing the UI, designing the menu, etc. Think before you speak young grasshopper.

You do realise % of total cost of game is irrelevant - I don't know what point you were trying to make there. It's value for price. Is each commander worth $3? Well, that's for the consumer to decide, and as far as I'm concerned that is well worth $3 out of my pocket (and other players who purchased these commanders obviously agree).

Total effort spent on the creation of the product is also irrelevant. How much effort do you think it takes to produce an iPad in a factory? Minimal. But people fork out hundreds of dollars for them (FYI - apple products have one of the highest mark-up prices for technology).

What's my point? The point is % of cost of another product AND effort used to create the product are completely irrelevant. It's the value of the individual product and what people are willing to pay.

L2economics and "Think before you speak young grasshopper".

HAHAHAHA, "THINK YOU'RE ENTITLED TO EVERYTHING FOR FREE" HAHAHA

No seriously, go fuck yourself. If this were a F2P game, then that's fine, but if I hear one more thing about "entitled to everything for free" about a game that charged $60 (even $80 at the time of THQ) for it, and then uses this model for commanders and keeping the pricing so high, well then, no, I'm not going to support this model.

Then don't play anymore and stop filling the forums with your useless whining. Other people are actually trying to make this game better - you're just complaining when things don't go your way and think people actually give a shit about your threats of leaving the game.

Then don't play anymore and stop filling the forums with your useless whining. Other people are actually trying to make this game better - you're just complaining when things don't go your way and think people actually give a shit about your threats of leaving the game.

HAHAHAHAHAHA, YOU THINK THIS IS USELESS HAHAHAHA

That's alright, you go ahead and spill all the money you want on this game. In the meantime, I'll be hopping on to some more fun and better games that have a much better pricing model (ie, a better game that costs a whole lot less, for example Red Orchestra 2). The majority of money should come from new players who are getting into the game, not by milking loyal fans constantly once every 2 months.

I have been looking forwards to COH2 for a long time, and allowed some of the bad things to pass, but this is the kind of stuff that kinda blows you over and really annoys you even more than the broken stuff that exists.

I WANT COH2 to be a good game which everyone wants to play. I WANT COH2 to be a game which can compete in the RTS genre. But with the decisions that they're making it currently, it's very hard to sell the case about COH2. It's gone to the point where I'm telling my friends not to try playing COH2 for now.

In the first 2 months, like most of the other guys here, I have been very supportive of COH2, despite all of the broken stuff and all of the kinks in this game. However, as time passed, events have caused my opinion of the game and how its run to sour.

Can I say though that the balance team has been awesome? They have put a lot of work into this game and I'm glad they did all they could to keep people in the game. Sadly, it's the decisions from the top which manage to screw this game over.

One cannot claim the new commanders are overpriced yet, as the sales figures of these commanders are not known yet. The demand determines the true price of these tactical additions.

Furthermore, current owners of CoH2 have shown they are willing to pay a premium price for the game itself, so Relic's assumption they would be willing to pay the same for additional content is probably correct.

You do realise % of total cost of game is irrelevant - I don't know what point you were trying to make there. It's value for price. Is each commander worth $3? Well, that's for the consumer to decide, and as far as I'm concerned that is well worth $3 out of my pocket (and other players who purchased these commanders obviously agree).

Total effort spent on the creation of the product is also irrelevant. How much effort do you think it takes to produce an iPad in a factory? Minimal. But people fork out hundreds of dollars for them (FYI - apple products have one of the highest mark-up prices for technology).

What's my point? The point is % of cost of another product AND effort used to create the product are completely irrelevant. It's the value of the individual product and what people are willing to pay.

L2economics and "Think before you speak young grasshopper".

What about the utility that you get out of ipad vs Commanders compared to their cost?

Not to mention what a product means to you?

You mate, need to learn some common sense, it will do you good

What about the utility that you get out of ipad vs Commanders compared to their cost?

Not to mention what a product means to you?

You mate, need to learn some common sense, it will do you good

Ideally, the price and the value are the same. However, price and value are two very different concepts. Regarding these new comanders, the price and value will converge over time.

HAHAHAHAHAHA, YOU THINK THIS IS USELESS HAHAHAHA

That's alright, you go ahead and spill all the money you want on this game. In the meantime, I'll be hopping on to some more fun and better games that have a much better pricing model (ie, a better game that costs a whole lot less, for example Red Orchestra 2). The majority of money should come from new players who are getting into the game, not by milking loyal fans constantly once every 2 months.

I have been looking forwards to COH2 for a long time, and allowed some of the bad things to pass, but this is the kind of stuff that kinda blows you over and really annoys you even more than the broken stuff that exists.

I WANT COH2 to be a good game which everyone wants to play. I WANT COH2 to be a game which can compete in the RTS genre. But with the decisions that they're making it currently, it's very hard to sell the case about COH2. It's gone to the point where I'm telling my friends not to try playing COH2 for now.

In the first 2 months, like most of the other guys here, I have been very supportive of COH2, despite all of the broken stuff and all of the kinks in this game. However, as time passed, events have caused my opinion of the game and how its run to sour.

Can I say though that the balance team has been awesome? They have put a lot of work into this game and I'm glad they did all they could to keep people in the game. Sadly, it's the decisions from the top which manage to screw this game over.

Do you always start your posts with "HAHAHAHAH xxxx HAHAHAHA"?

It makes you look like a 12 year old. Not to mention your constant reiteration of "I WANT!" No offense if you are 12, of course. It just limits your credibility.

What about the utility that you get out of ipad vs Commanders compared to their cost?

Not to mention what a product means to you?

You mate, need to learn some common sense, it will do you good

Don't really understand your point there. What a product means to an individual is up to the individual. And comparing $12 commanders in an RTS game to an Ipad is kind of ridiculous. I only used that example to prove a point - that you can't argue effort used to create a product to determine it's value.

If you must know, I will get a lot more utility and value out of these commanders than an Ipad. An Ipad actually has very little utility - most of the value of an Ipad is image. But that's what people value...

No because your posts are immediately derrogatory and disrespectful.

Why shouldn't you be treated like

a) A 12 year old
b) A moron who just wants to hate for hate's sake.

I've been looking at comments pages in politics news in Aus and I see this kind of shit all the time.

COH2 should not be like this, yet you bring this kind of trash to our doorstep.

Other people are certainly more eloquent than you in their opinions, not like, "You're either with me or against me. If you're against me, fuck off and go enjoy your check from centrelink etc etc etc".

Guys could you please try to calm down a bit and continue the discussion in a civil way? thanks

This is Relic's first serious attempt at sucking their consumers dry of every single cent. Cut them some slack.

They don't know how to do value for money. At all. It's pretty clear CoH2 was a flop when they're overcharging you for these DLCs by a magnitude of 400%.

These are worth about 1€ each. Max. You can sell them in bundles for 4 or 5 euro. Max.

I'm not really put out by this anyways, I quit this game a month ago and it's good(or not really) to see my decision vindicated by several decisions Relic has made.

As someone who's been a Relic fan for a long time, I can safely mark their games as a no-go area and avoid them all in future. And so the mighty have fallen.

You do realise % of total cost of game is irrelevant - I don't know what point you were trying to make there. It's value for price. Is each commander worth $3? Well, that's for the consumer to decide, and as far as I'm concerned that is well worth $3 out of my pocket (and other players who purchased these commanders obviously agree).

Total effort spent on the creation of the product is also irrelevant. How much effort do you think it takes to produce an iPad in a factory? Minimal. But people fork out hundreds of dollars for them (FYI - apple products have one of the highest mark-up prices for technology).

What's my point? The point is % of cost of another product AND effort used to create the product are completely irrelevant. It's the value of the individual product and what people are willing to pay.

L2economics and "Think before you speak young grasshopper".

Importance vs % price is very relevant. A CPU can cost 20-30% the price of an entire computer because it is the most critical component. But in terms of computers, a DLC commander/skin is about as critical as a mousepad. And btw your entire Ipad argument is flawed because you only compared the manufacturing process and not the materials used or the design process. Even just comparing the manufacturing process you are still wrong because a good chunk of CoH2 sales were via Steam and therefore there was no manufacturing.

What's my point? The point is % of cost of another product AND effort used to create the product are completely irrelevant. It's the value of the individual product and what people are willing to pay.

L2economics and "Think before you speak young grasshopper".

The consumers of the video game industry have already determined a year of DLC for a single AAA title is worth $40-60, the chances of your opinion changing that are slim to none. So yeah, L2economics and try your hardest with your next reply so I don't tear it apart in 4 minutes.

So many stupid kids around here. Do you think that those developers work for you ? they are your fucking slaves ? It's a fucking bussiness...if no money comes in it goes bankrups...3 euro is one fucking beer !!!!!!!!!!!!! Spoiled little kids....

Maybe they should start charging us for patches. If you want to get the new content you have to pay for it, right guys?