Just wanna bounce a build idea around
30 Oct 2018, 23:40 PM
#1
Posts: 3053
Lately I’ve been playing a lot with airborne company in 1v1s and teamgames. I’ve been thinking of skipping a third rifleman squad and getting a mortar instead vs ostheer, since I always feel like I end up having too much infantry and not enough teamweapons vs ostheer anyways. However, giving up a third rifle usually hurts in the early game. I usually get paths, an airdropped hmg, and captain tier for a Stuart in 1v1s and then paras and Shermans backed up by at guns in the lategame. Just wanted to (as title says) bounce the idea around.
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30 Oct 2018, 23:45 PM
#2
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
You can make it work, but you should be going LT, as Captain you are going to need that third Riflemen and should go Pack Howitzer vs Wehr. Nothing wrong with going Mortar, for the smoke, then Pack Howitzer for bleeding them.
31 Oct 2018, 00:35 AM
#3
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
What I hate about USF design is the outrageous amount of infantry you're forced to play with. So much infantry that you cannot incoorportate elite infantry into the build.
In a perfect world I'd drop the free officers and go 3 rifles into tech, paths, support teams etc and into airborne. However since I'm required to play with officers I'd try for 2x rifle as you said with mortar.
What sidaroth says about going LT vs OST is true. You should be going LT for HMG control and AAHT probably. CPT is just too slow and passive vs a faction that will out passive you. You're trying to beat OST at their own game basically, which isn't a great idea. Although paratroopers are very fun to use.
In a perfect world I'd drop the free officers and go 3 rifles into tech, paths, support teams etc and into airborne. However since I'm required to play with officers I'd try for 2x rifle as you said with mortar.
What sidaroth says about going LT vs OST is true. You should be going LT for HMG control and AAHT probably. CPT is just too slow and passive vs a faction that will out passive you. You're trying to beat OST at their own game basically, which isn't a great idea. Although paratroopers are very fun to use.
31 Oct 2018, 22:46 PM
#4
Posts: 3053
I was mostly thinking captain for the pack howie and because he works decently with bazookas. As an added bonus he gets to make infantry (read: Thompson paras) break suppression and run faster with the vet1 ability. I also have become pretty fond of the Stuart in 1v1s since it does a good job against LVs and can hold points against solitary squads pretty well. People also forget it can engine damage their tanks XD Lt just feels a little superfluous since I’m not going to have the manpower for an M20 and airdropped .50 seems to be the better/more reliable option than the AAHT to me and obviously makes the lt .50 redundant. I usually feel like I end up having too much infantry and not enough indirect to help support that infantry (hence the pack howie). That’s my rationale for captain anyway.
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1 Nov 2018, 01:46 AM
#5
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
I imagine it works perfectly fine as a mid (and end) game build, its just kind of awkward getting there as you've probably realized (not enough core infantry presence early, HMGs can be delayed if you dont hit your cp timing). If your opponent is playing slower, or you're good at playing defensively, then the build can be pretty strong once it gets going. Team weapon heavy builds are really low bleed since they have low reinforce costs and dont even trade/fight model to model to begin with. The pak howie is just a better mortar, so it really gives indirect fire superiority. Finally, the stuart is bleed free and, as noted, is an alright utility investment.
So yes, obviously not a top tier build, but a fun one with a slightly different style. It can definitely be a useable build if you play around it correctly and accept you'll have an awkward early phase of the game.
So yes, obviously not a top tier build, but a fun one with a slightly different style. It can definitely be a useable build if you play around it correctly and accept you'll have an awkward early phase of the game.
1 Nov 2018, 15:15 PM
#6
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
I've been using a x2RE x2Rifle start for a long time and reached its limitation now. People understand that 4xgren or 4xvolks are > to 3xRM until Lieutenant hit the field and I barely see anything else atm. So imagine with only x2Rifle. it works vs slow players as mentioned JFJ but face a rusher and you'll be butt wiped in 5 minutes.
I'm actually back to classic x3rifles after doing almost exclusively x2rifles and feel the difference.
I'm actually back to classic x3rifles after doing almost exclusively x2rifles and feel the difference.
1 Nov 2018, 17:02 PM
#7
Posts: 310
What I hate about USF design is the outrageous amount of infantry you're forced to play with. So much infantry that you cannot incoorportate elite infantry into the build.
In a perfect world I'd drop the free officers and go 3 rifles into tech, paths, support teams etc and into airborne. However since I'm required to play with officers I'd try for 2x rifle as you said with mortar.
What sidaroth says about going LT vs OST is true. You should be going LT for HMG control and AAHT probably. CPT is just too slow and passive vs a faction that will out passive you. You're trying to beat OST at their own game basically, which isn't a great idea. Although paratroopers are very fun to use.
Isn't Captain tier supposed to counter Ostheer due to the fact that pack howitzer can counter statics positions?
I've been using a x2RE x2Rifle start for a long time and reached its limitation now. People understand that 4xgren or 4xvolks are > to 3xRM until Lieutenant hit the field and I barely see anything else atm. So imagine with only x2Rifle. it works vs slow players as mentioned JFJ but face a rusher and you'll be butt wiped in 5 minutes.
I'm actually back to classic x3rifles after doing almost exclusively x2rifles and feel the difference.
What's the strategy behind 2 Rifles and 2 REs?
"L is for L Shaped Ambush"
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-Orion Training Group
1 Nov 2018, 17:14 PM
#8
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Isn't Captain tier supposed to counter Ostheer due to the fact that pack howitzer can counter statics positions?
What's the strategy behind 2 Rifles and 2 REs?
A lot of map control early game so the lieutenant come faster + fast IR squad or you can equip one RE with flamethrower and the second with zooks, you can have a faster mortar also. Then you can call Para squads etc...
You use the RE to cap everywhere and the Rifle to protect your cutoff early game. That's a strat that work well vs classic Ostheer or OKW start but vs someone who spam 4 volks or 4 gren and rush your cutoff, that's super hard to counter.
1 Nov 2018, 19:02 PM
#9
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Isn't Captain tier supposed to counter Ostheer due to the fact that pack howitzer can counter statics positions?
Theoredically yes if your OST opponet builds into that. But if your OST opponet sees your CPT and decides "Hey no 50cals! Spam Grenadier time with G43s!" You basically just get run over because of how much OST can out blob you with their low initial cost of grens combined with the power spike and mobility of G43s. The mobility of the G43s keeps the howitzer fairly underwhelming.
But yes, you could get away with howitzer, even 2x howitzer if your OST opponet is pulling out LMG42s or heavy HMG42 play. Otherwise LT is better since AAHT just dumps on heavy gren play and can crush single 222 +Flametrack.
2 Nov 2018, 22:26 PM
#10
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
That's right, without the LT and .50s you'll just get outblobbed by the enemy, without that power spike and your HMG the enemy will just sit on your cutoff.
7 Nov 2018, 15:31 PM
#11
Posts: 3053
That's right, without the LT and .50s you'll just get outblobbed by the enemy, without that power spike and your HMG the enemy will just sit on your cutoff.
Well that’s the idea behind going airborne. That way I can get a .50 at 2cp especially if I skip the third rifle in this case.
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8 Nov 2018, 12:39 PM
#12
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
Well that’s the idea behind going airborne. That way I can get a .50 at 2cp especially if I skip the third rifle in this case.
Well, I prefer going Recon Support, so I have to go LT.
8 Nov 2018, 17:44 PM
#13
Posts: 104
You might need to consider that this commander and build will not offer much help against late game axis armor.
10 Nov 2018, 07:24 AM
#14
Posts: 479
My general build against Ostheer as USF lately has been 3x Rifles and a mortar into LT. I generally go for a ambo after I get my LT and then go weapon racks as quickly as I can to apply some pressure with BAR's and 50 cals. I generally only go AAHT if I see more than 1 222 or a Flamer HT since that unit is a pain in the ass to kill even with a 2x Zook RE's if he has Panzer Tactician at his disposal and Mobile Defense is still mighty popular these days. The key is to power spike with weapons and go for a medium tank as quickly as possible. The mortar should smoke the 42' every opportunity you get and focus on setting up flanks with multiple squads in unison. If your opponent get's a medium tank before your first Sherman I'll go Airborne for a 57mm otherwise Heavy Cavalry is overall your best best against Ostheer in 1's.
12 Dec 2018, 02:36 AM
#15
Posts: 888
What I hate about USF design is the outrageous amount of infantry you're forced to play with. So much infantry that you cannot incoorportate elite infantry into the build.
In a perfect world I'd drop the free officers and go 3 rifles into tech, paths, support teams etc and into airborne. However since I'm required to play with officers I'd try for 2x rifle as you said with mortar.
What sidaroth says about going LT vs OST is true. You should be going LT for HMG control and AAHT probably. CPT is just too slow and passive vs a faction that will out passive you. You're trying to beat OST at their own game basically, which isn't a great idea. Although paratroopers are very fun to use.
Yes you are forced to rely on 3-4 Riflemen sqauds which have a fairly high cost and pop count and are mediocre units at best.
13 Dec 2018, 18:43 PM
#16
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
It's much easier to survive with Pathfinders until you get Paratroopers now, just double upgrade a tier for the CPs, you can go Captain and drop the MG to man it with Pathfinders for selfspotting more easily now too.
13 Dec 2018, 22:11 PM
#17
Posts: 3053
It's much easier to survive with Pathfinders until you get Paratroopers now, just double upgrade a tier for the CPs, you can go Captain and drop the MG to man it with Pathfinders for selfspotting more easily now too.
Having paths come at 0cp makes this strat a lot more viable now I think. Hyped that I’ll be around for the weekend to try it out lol.
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13 Dec 2018, 23:07 PM
#18
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
Having paths come at 0cp makes this strat a lot more viable now I think. Hyped that I’ll be around for the weekend to try it out lol.
Self-spotting takes away the biggest weakness of the .50 cal, the small arc, makes it amazing at supporting attacks.
14 Dec 2018, 08:56 AM
#19
Posts: 606
Yes you are forced to rely on 3-4 Riflemen sqauds which have a fairly high cost and pop count and are mediocre units at best.
vetted riflemen are the standard infantry with the best recieved accuracy modifiers bar none! They also have easy non doctrinal acess two double lmgs and have a better than average moving accuracy.
While it's true that they often underperform for their cost in the early game, it is certainly not the case once they get into the mid- and late game.
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