Help Me Understand Model vs Health Loss

I don't get it anymore. I don't know what patch, maybe the "increased damage" patch that made this so brutal but I just don't understand when a unit is going to get wiped or not on retreat. This is especially harsh with 4 man squads. It seems to me that any more less than half health has to retreat or it's 90% certain to get wiped on retreat as soon as it engages anything.

There's just something funny about the relationship between less than full health squads and models that doesn't intuitively translate anymore, I mean it never did exactly, but more than ever I'm just not understanding how why other than from flame damage, models don't die, but health can suddenly drop badly,
then the next shot wipes the entire unit even with 3 models left.

I just really don't like it because it makes harassment so, so dangerous. Most squads will be in combat, and after you force a retreat and are capping, the harassing squad is far too in danger of getting wiped if it's suffered any health damage. I am trying to adapt but this just really kind of takes the fun out of the game for me. What's the point of engaging at all in any battle that doesn't totally win you the game if capping with less than your entire army is too risky?

This is one of the reasons I still don't like COH2's capping system - it basically makes capping with multiple units a necessity.

It's probably not usefull, but once you get more hours in the game you will just get a feeling for it. You know better when to retreat, which engagements not to take and when there is a high chance that you will get a crit against you. For me it's more of a feeling at this point, especially since i'm not a stats guy

I know, but it's just less intuitive than ever, I've been playing since beta.

I miss the old days - look at this low health gren squad take a molotov. Today that would have just instantly killed the entire squad I think with that health level.

[youtube]AvuQ9XQBdRA?t=290[/youtube]

Do you format youtube links without the initial URL? it takes it out automatically.

https://youtu.be/AvuQ9XQBdRA?t=290

Individual model health is not displayed in infantry squads.

A half health grenadier squad could indicate all 4 members are at half health, or that two members have 1 hp (from say, running through white phos) and the other members are at or nearly full health.

Depending on the spread of the squad and the damage being dealt to them, this can result in suddenly losing a ton of models (finishing off hurt models) or taking a huge amount of damage (damaging healthy models.)

The less models in the squad, the less potential targets, which translates to more focus firing.

Six penal battalion models firing on 4 half health gren models will spread damage out, especially if they're sitting in cover. Six penal battalion models firing on 1 full health gren model will drop poor dietrich in nothing flat.

Conversely, a high health model may survive the brunt of a flamethrower or grenade/mortar blast and survive while their hurt squad members feed their xp to the enemy.

I know, but it's just less intuitive than ever, I've been playing since beta.

I miss the old days - look at this low health gren squad take a molotov. Today that would have just instantly killed the entire squad I think with that health level.

[youtube]AvuQ9XQBdRA?t=290[/youtube]

Do you format youtube links without the initial URL? it takes it out automatically.

https://youtu.be/AvuQ9XQBdRA?t=290

In the old days the gren squad could've likely been wiped in a molotov at full health. Flame crits were crazy back then and IIRC could instagib full health models.

Didn't a more recent patch change how molotovs dealt damage? More up front blast damage, less residual fire? That may have been a test patch and may not have made it to final though... It's gotten confusing to know whats in live anymore.

Ah okay that totally explains why I don't get it. Without individual model health bars you have no idea if your unit is going to go poof or not when shot at...

You sure don't. This is why it is wise to get healing up. It is so incredibly important for factions to have ready access to healing, and this dynamic amplifies that importance.

Manpower is (besides time, arguably) the most important and scarce resource on the battlefield. The trick is to preserve it as much as you can. There's things like retreating as soon as possible from engagements you can't possibly win, but healing is also very important. Personally I've taught myself to retreat whenever squad health is around 60% per model (average) or less to heal up in base. This might cost you some mild map control but it will give you more manpower to spend on new units in the long run. Having squads with less than 60-70% HP will mean they will likely lose models quickly if they get into a fight anyway.

As for knowing when to retreat based on health... it's something you just have to get a feeling for. Again with manpower preservation in mind, it's usually best to retreat sooner than later if you think you're gonna lose an engagement.

In the old days the gren squad could've likely been wiped in a molotov at full health. Flame crits were crazy back then and IIRC could instagib full health models.

Didn't a more recent patch change how molotovs dealt damage? More up front blast damage, less residual fire? That may have been a test patch and may not have made it to final though... It's gotten confusing to know whats in live anymore.

Ya Molotovs use to have insane flame crit damage. I remember squads in buildings melting off the face of the earth the minute a molly hit them.