Soviet unit roster needs fixing

lol 220F from start to get t34. yeah no.

Also do you know it costs more for sov to tech to t4 than for OKW to tech to the flakbase? 190 vs 205/200

Thats ofc skipping sidetechs like at nades and molotovs which pretty much means penal only builds... m3a1 is part of the calculation as sov is fucked earlygame without its pressure

This simply means

1. T2 builds will always spawn the T34 after the P4

2. T1 builds can compete so long as they take both fuels

I forgot to add... it gets more crazy if okw goes for the BG headquarters instead... 170 fuel vs 205/200 fuel...

It currently costs 290/295 fuel to get a T34... ost can get the superior panzer 4 cheaper... true in the right hands the T34 trades better... its still damn expensive

Also do you know it costs more for sov to tech to t4 than for OKW to tech to the flakbase? 190 vs 205/200

Thats ofc skipping sidetechs like at nades and molotovs which pretty much means penal only builds... m3a1 is part of the calculation as sov is fucked earlygame without its pressure

This simply means

1. T2 builds will always spawn the T34 after the P4

2. T1 builds can compete so long as they take both fuels

I forgot to add... it gets more crazy if okw goes for the BG headquarters instead... 170 fuel vs 205/200 fuel...

Ok so just a lot of things wrong here and I'll go through them.

1. Don't factor in m3a1 as a "must have". Not every player does use it and it is built almost NEVER against ost.

2. Soviets start with 20F, T1 takes 10 and T2 takes 20. So I don't know why you have a varied fuel option that is the difference of only 5, when it should be 10.

3. Given you go T1 which is rather potent right now and don't go m3a1 because you're against OST you get this equation for a T34 rush: 10F+85F+90F+90F-20F = 255F. No clue how you got to 290/295 with just an m3a1 added which is 15.

4. OST fast tech using T1 to p4 you get this equation: 10F+40F+90F+15F+120F-20F = 255F. The exact same as soviets without going T2 for a pak gun or 251. So the notion that the P4 comes for "cheaper" is wrong.

5. OKW fast tech using T1 to P4 you get this equation: 15F+25F+15F+120F+140F-5F= 310F WITHOUT MEDICS.

Want to just factor in the buildings/tech?
Sov going T1: 10F+85F+90F-20 = 165F
Ost going T1: 10F+40F+90F+15F-20F = 145F
OKW going T1: 15F+25F+15F+120F-5F = 170F

The only real disadvantage you'll have in a theoredical stalemate as soviets is when the 1st tank hits the field, and when you max out at popcap given you have equal number of tanks. Every tank after the 1st one as soviets will arrive sooner than any counterparts 2nd armor piece.

So yeah, in conclusion teching is fine in the fuel department so long as we ignore the massive holes in faction design.

I just think t1 or t2 should be both viable instead of 1 being strong and the other being bad.

2vs2 perspective too:

I think T-70 and P2 has too much health... these units should die in two AT shots like 222 or flame HT. Stuart, puma or AEC should be able to survive a couple of shots as these units don't really have the shock effect of an AI light tank or flame vehicle.

then make maxim a clone of 50cal with no AP rounds, also link AT grenade and molotov tech so getting two cons and upgrades can be affordable way to support penals instead of guards every game. Maybe take 50mp off healing upgrade too.

Maybe merge change so it is bit more useful? guards do not need a nerf, they are good but already drop weapons a lot unlike obers.

Then I think you can do some major changes like nerfing OP t-70. Possibly Soviets need a repair buff, I think every faction but OKW repairs too slow, OKW get repair truck that is best in game wit zero micro or pop sink (very problematic in 4vs4 because double OKW truck can repair tanks instanly while sov are running around cons or combat engineers lol). Average game OKW repair panther in almost half the time soviets need to repair IS-2 or KV-2.

But I think core soviet cheese T-70, also vet 3 sight combined with most soviet doctrines make them strong. things like mark target and t-34/85, IS-2 or KV-2 in most doctrines WITH guards, USF or brits don't have such options of such good doctrine mix. Especially when soviets have every tool good sniper, snare,mortar, non doc elite inf, flamers, rocket arty, mines, smoke, light tank......

they are the master allrounder faction of CoH2 and combined with strong doctrine you see UKF/USF falling behind, especially in teamgames when you need to react to a map or enemy build. I think OP has some very valid points but buffs and nerfs need to be slight or we end up with current underpowered UKF and all three allied factions UP.

Since everyone loves to use GCS results to explain everything, we can safely say SU are in a good spot. Nothing needs to be changed. Case closed.

2vs2 perspective too:
But I think core soviet cheese T-70, also vet 3 sight combined with most soviet doctrines make them strong. things like mark target and t-34/85, IS-2 or KV-2 in most doctrines WITH guards, USF or brits don't have such options of such good doctrine mix. Especially when soviets have every tool good sniper, snare,mortar, non doc elite inf, flamers, rocket arty, mines, smoke, light tank......

I'd like to point out you must mean ISU-152 and KV-1. I'd love to see Guards + IS-2 or KV-2, but those don't exist right now. KV-1 is very easily countered, and ISU-152 hardly sees any play outside of team games because of how late and expensive it is. These doctrines are strong and meta anyway, because Guards are strong and meta, not because it has Mark Target + T-34/85 or ISU-152. Without Guards, many of these strats would fall face-flat in the early-mid game when those powerful options haven't got a chance to come online. It's the Guards that are the problem IMO.

I dislike how Guards and Penals are designed, and if it were up to me, have Penals have Mosins and act like Osttruppen while Guards inherit the SVTs but lose their ability to have both LMG + AT rifle. By making Guards choose 1 or the other, they become less of a no-brainer unit and also delays their shock value slightly while still being powerful.

Soviets are forced to rely on crutch units because rest of the faction sucks

Conscripts need to be 190, no ppsh they are literally ostruppen tier unit without the powerful hammer that is wehr weapon teams or the baseline mg42 upgrade)

Maxim needs a suppression buff, or atleast an arc boost
t70 needs to be less wipey especially on the move
grenades need to be merged
Sniper needs to go back to 2 models with low rate of fire but only one model is the sniper the other is a "spotter" with a rifle that works like the new revamp patch 5 grenadier upgrade.
t34-85 need to be even more fuel intense so that they're a second tank after 76 and not a replacement
t34-76 needs ram with more accelerate and that doesn't destroy its turret if the turret isnt facing the front
guards need to choose between upgradeing dp or ptrs and not get either free or have both, its obnoxious to play with and to deal with, in return it gets a 1 pop decrease.

Since everyone loves to use GCS results to explain everything, we can safely say SU are in a good spot. Nothing needs to be changed. Case closed.

Since okw was floated up due to the power of its light vehicles... how about we nerf the battlegroup hqs units to sov T2 levels and lets see how quickly you start crying like a noob?

Ok so just a lot of things wrong here and I'll go through them.

1. Don't factor in m3a1 as a "must have". Not every player does use it and it is built almost NEVER against ost.

2. Soviets start with 20F, T1 takes 10 and T2 takes 20. So I don't know why you have a varied fuel option that is the difference of only 5, when it should be 10.

3. Given you go T1 which is rather potent right now and don't go m3a1 because you're against OST you get this equation for a T34 rush: 10F+85F+90F+90F-20F = 255F. No clue how you got to 290/295 with just an m3a1 added which is 15.

4. OST fast tech using T1 to p4 you get this equation: 10F+40F+90F+15F+120F-20F = 255F. The exact same as soviets without going T2 for a pak gun or 251. So the notion that the P4 comes for "cheaper" is wrong.

5. OKW fast tech using T1 to P4 you get this equation: 15F+25F+15F+120F+140F-5F= 310F WITHOUT MEDICS.

Want to just factor in the buildings/tech?
Sov going T1: 10F+85F+90F-20 = 165F
Ost going T1: 10F+40F+90F+15F-20F = 145F
OKW going T1: 15F+25F+15F+120F-5F = 170F

The only real disadvantage you'll have in a theoredical stalemate as soviets is when the 1st tank hits the field, and when you max out at popcap given you have equal number of tanks. Every tank after the 1st one as soviets will arrive sooner than any counterparts 2nd armor piece.

So yeah, in conclusion teching is fine in the fuel department so long as we ignore the massive holes in faction design.

The calculation was total fuel cost not factoring initial fuel... 10 + 85 + 90 = 185 fuel for t4.... 200 fuel with the scout car 275 fuel for a t34 without a scout car and 290 fuel for a T34 with the scout car

1. The scout car is always useful for punishing both ost and okw in the first phase of the game

2. Wehr techs for cheaper to get a superior tank... understandable since they lack an LT... but its not like ost cant skip t2 to go straight for a p4 rush...


3. Okw spends 175 Fuel (without medics... around 190 with medics... which is cheaper than sov teching which takes 185 fuel without the m3 and 200 fuel with the m3

This is ridiculous as they spend less fuel teching up to get access to superior tanks in a building that acts as a free bunker

Soviets are forced to rely on crutch units because rest of the faction sucks

Yes. That´s my point. Apart from maybe UKF, no other faction has such a variety of useless trash abilities/units as Soviets. Which forces Soviets to use the same units over and over again, which is very boring and repetitive.

Since okw was floated up due to the power of its light vehicles... how about we nerf the battlegroup hqs units to sov T2 levels and lets see how quickly you start crying like a noob?

OKW Battlegroup units aren't even the same as the ones in T2. But do whatever u want. I don't really play OKW that much. PPsh cons are fine. If u think they're crap, l2p

Since the grenade research at the HQ is basically paying fuel to make Conscripts more valuable, maybe it could go a little farther?

You could bring back the merged grenade research, and make another one that lowers the cost of conscripts to something like 220 / 18 per man.

Most Soviet units aren't BAD per say, the Maxim is the B4 is and combat engies are, everything else is slightly over priced (conscripts, krautmower, possibly shocks) or even over performing (penals, su85)

IMO they aren't too far off from being a well balanced faction, a bit better mp cost balancing, some muni balance in there and a relook at shotty vet bonuses would go a long way but I don't know if they need MUCH in the way of earth shaking changes

OKW Battlegroup units aren't even the same as the ones in T2. But do whatever u want. I don't really play OKW that much. PPsh cons are fine. If u think they're crap, l2p

Same logic as T2 being outshined by T2... mech HQ outshines BG group..
Ppsh cons arent crap... but

1. without ppsh theyre dirt useless

2. Theyre outclassed by volks at every range hence why veterans dont use PPSH cons against okw...

Its clear that you dont play the russians... dont try to act like you do

Same logic as T2 being outshined by T2... mech HQ outshines BG group..
Ppsh cons arent crap... but

1. without ppsh theyre dirt useless

2. Theyre outclassed by volks at every range hence why veterans dont use PPSH cons against okw...

Its clear that you dont play the russians... dont try to act like you do

I do play SU. Wheres you playercard

Soviet have been a fun faction to play with, but they get nerfed beyond relief in every patch because too much crybabies in this game.

They have never been a balanced faction either, thorough the whole game changes soviets have always been a cheese faction full of frustrating strats to get through.


They need a serious revamp.

I do play SU. Wheres you playercard

Here we go the error subsided...

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561198032567729

As you can see i told the truth... as stated in my earlier post i have a decent 1v1/2v2 standing with sov... but only recently entered the 1v1/2v2 realm...

The majority of my axis non 4v4 games are 2v2 automatches with buddies of mine as most of them dont actually play the allies very well... as a result i play the allies alone more than i play the axis alone...

I have a decent 2v2 winrate with my buddies with a total of around 30-40 games

if you think about pointing out my my ost 2v2 placement it was borked by a bunch of scrubs in my last 3-4 placement matches...
U cannot carry a guy who spams mg42s all day who gets wrecked by penals

Wheres your player card?

Soviet have been a fun faction to play with, but they get nerfed beyond relief in every patch because too much crybabies in this game.

They have never been a balanced faction either, thorough the whole game changes soviets have always been a cheese faction full of frustrating strats to get through.


They need a serious revamp.

This they've been reliant on cheese strats rather than good balancing for as long as i can remember

maxim spam
penal flamer
penal lendlease into sherman
guard sniper blob
dual t70