M8A1 Scott Counter

I don't think flanking will work. Panzer IV's are too squishy vs double jacksons, especially in team games. Riflemen screening with snares to nail your tanks and supporting infantry gets annihilated by the double scotts. Panthers have too low rate of fire to do any meaning damage and will get nailed by the kiting jacksons.

The combo is very very potent, but only seen in really late game stages. I believe there was once a same kind of strat, but the double scotts were replaced by paratroopers with double lmgs and you had multiple jacksons behind the blob and supported by p47 galore. Same sort of melt all strat.

I'm talking about 1vs1
Dual Scott cost 160 fuel and 20 popcast, that's one Jackson less on the field. I repeat myself but the solution is overwhelming him with armor.
And of course you're not sending your panther and panzer alone, you have your own infantry to provide support, scouting and AI damage.

The real problem with Scott is that the unit is cheap enough to be quickly replaced and don't really care about infantry vet to deal damage. Vet0 Scott is going to hurt you the same way and grind its own vet vs vet0 or vet3 grens.

I play USF a lot and I'll say I go double, or even triple M18Scott to overcome the WEhr vet infantry vs my riflemen. They are absolute monsters and every USF player should know it, they clean up house and can outrange anything. You scan w/ the major, and then barrage AT guns.

It sort of reminds me of when the SU-76 Barrage was free and how much carnage it caused, except the M18Scott can move while doing it, has smoke, and can repair itself!

So usually I end up losing the battle w/ the Scotts because of either STUG spam or Panzergrens. Yeah, Ill focus the panzer grens down cause they're infantry and scotts eat them up, but usually I get overwhelmed by the combination. AT guns dont work against good USF players that have Scotts cause they'll back up and just murder the AT gun.

You may just need to be more aggressive, WEHR has a tendancy to turtle a bit and if you let your opponent get our 2 scotts, backed by a jackson that's a problem. You're letting him create a lethal force there. While you can always go for Stuka call ins, its also worth realizing that a lack of aggression can punish you.

I disagree with the idea of overwhelming your opponet with armor for the purpose of this thread. If you're trying to out flank and dive a scott, there will be a jackson there to stop you. Your target then becomes the jackson, not the scott. If you're able to get off 3 shots through smoke canister while not risking losses from the jackson I'd be impressed. So impressed that I'd say it was probably the USF players fault, or the unit got caught pathing or something. You simply don't have enough time to all in like that with the threat of snares and jacksons and skill smoke, as i'm sure everyone loves to experience vs ostheer.

I disagree with the idea of overwhelming your opponet with armor for the purpose of this thread. If you're trying to out flank and dive a scott, there will be a jackson there to stop you. Your target then becomes the jackson, not the scott. If you're able to get off 3 shots through smoke canister while not risking losses from the jackson I'd be impressed. So impressed that I'd say it was probably the USF players fault, or the unit got caught pathing or something. You simply don't have enough time to all in like that with the threat of snares and jacksons and skill smoke, as i'm sure everyone loves to experience vs ostheer.

So much true that I wonder why USF isn't top1 pick during tournament. Hell their late game is completely OP by your description.

So much true that I wonder why USF isn't top1 pick during tournament. Hell their late game is completely OP by your description.

Because of their very slow start, OKW flat out stomps USF early on and Wehrmacht can easily deny them resources too, you can just bank about everything on the LT tier surpression helping you secure resources to make a comeback.

So much true that I wonder why USF isn't top1 pick during tournament. Hell their late game is completely OP by your description.

You're more than welcome to disprove my post with an actual scenario or we can just go back to "USF bad, buff pls!"

You're more than welcome to disprove my post with an actual scenario or we can just go back to "USF bad, buff pls!"

Fact already disprove your post, 60/40 victory ratio in favor of Ostheer on last GCS2.

Scott are good indeed but they can be taken down by armor with a good push with combined forces. And 1 Jackson can't fight two tanks, remember 2 Scott means 1 tank less on USF army. And if the USF player overinvested on tank and Atgun to protect his Scott, use Pzshreck. Even if Scott are good they don't wipe squad like before and they aren't so good vs moving target. Now yes a lucky shot may force you to insta retreat a squad but that's a lucky shot, not the norme.

That's all.

Edit: I'm sorry if there isn't a unit I-wipe-Scott-for-breakfast on Ostheer roster so you can just say build that unit and you're fine.

Fact already disprove your post, 60/40 victory ratio in favor of Ostheer on last GCS2.

Scott are good indeed but they can be taken down by armor with a good push with combined forces. And 1 Jackson can't fight two tanks, remember 2 Scott means 1 tank less on USF army. And if the USF player overinvested on tank and Atgun to protect his Scott, use Pzshreck. Even if Scott are good they don't wipe squad like before and they aren't so good vs moving target. Now yes a lucky shot may force you to insta retreat a squad but that's a lucky shot, not the norme.

That's all.

Edit: I'm sorry if there isn't a unit I-wipe-Scott-for-breakfast on Ostheer roster so you can just say build that unit and you're fine.

My point was about the scott being difficult to counter. Not USF viability in 1v1. The problem isn't that Ostheer need "I build this, it counters your unit easily." The problem is a lot of the USF roster is so strong it does that to other factions. The biggest offender is probably the jackson and pershing.

Scotts don't need "lucky shots". Use them like brumbars and bulldozers, attack ground and the shell goes where you want it, and the projectile is so fast it works very well.

But uh, if your best arguement to kill a scott is to try and charge a 60 range mobile howitzer with pschrecks in 1v1 then I think you should probably concede on that...

My point was about the scott being difficult to counter. Not USF viability in 1v1. The problem isn't that Ostheer need "I build this, it counters your unit easily." The problem is a lot of the USF roster is so strong it does that to other factions. The biggest offender is probably the jackson and pershing.

Scotts don't need "lucky shots". Use them like brumbars and bulldozers, attack ground and the shell goes where you want it, and the projectile is so fast it works very well.

But uh, if your best arguement to kill a scott is to try and charge a 60 range mobile howitzer with pschrecks in 1v1 then I think you should probably concede on that...

What you say doesn't make sense for this topic, What the value of "The problem is a lot of the USF roster is so strong it does that to other factions", the same argument can be made for every faction (minus UKF atm).

Scott need a lot of investment to be fielded and protected, you are actually arguing that 260*2+400 Manpower and 75*2+140 fuel is difficult to counter, yeah no shit Sherlock! Even more if we take the scenario of 2 jacksons covering 2 Scotts. But hey, that's also 34 Manpower or 48 in the second scenario, nothing to be seen here, 1/3 or 1/2 of the USF army is difficult to take out with a single Pzshreck or a panther or a Pz4, oooh that's so abnormal! hell, he may have mined as well! Let's not forget that on top of that he may have call…. a Pershing.

To the OP, solutions have been given: play aggressively, do not cluster your army in one spot and use your tanks with proper support to push from different angles.
Last but not least, Ostheer has a lot of good doctrines with different approach to support your strategy: Tiger, Elefant, Pack43, Scope, Smoke and the best of the best: Ju-87

The problem with the Scott is that it is too potent in certain synergetic situations. This means certain maps vs certain match Ups with certain unit compositions.

In general: long maps, shielded by either at guns or Jackson's and rifleman with double bars.

The Jackson has the same problematic synergistic aspect. On short and clustered maps, it doesn't shine and people call it a glass cannon. On long open maps, it dominates and tanks away at everything that resembles a vehicle. You can't dive it, since it is fast and shielded by double bar rifleman hordes etc.

This isn't a problem with the Scott, it is a problem of certain builds being so well supplemented by the Scott, that the Scott itself becomes too potent.

Changing this requires the change of the USF faction in a considerable way, since it doesn't have that much going for it at the moment...

What you say doesn't make sense for this topic, What the value of "The problem is a lot of the USF roster is so strong it does that to other factions", the same argument can be made for every faction (minus UKF atm).

Scott need a lot of investment to be fielded and protected, you are actually arguing that 260*2+400 Manpower and 75*2+140 fuel is difficult to counter, yeah no shit Sherlock! Even more if we take the scenario of 2 jacksons covering 2 Scotts. But hey, that's also 34 Manpower or 48 in the second scenario, nothing to be seen here, 1/3 or 1/2 of the USF army is difficult to take out with a single Pzshreck or a panther or a Pz4, oooh that's so abnormal! hell, he may have mined as well! Let's not forget that on top of that he may have call…. a Pershing.

To the OP, solutions have been given: play aggressively, do not cluster your army in one spot and use your tanks with proper support to push from different angles.
Last but not least, Ostheer has a lot of good doctrines with different approach to support your strategy: Tiger, Elefant, Pack43, Scope, Smoke and the best of the best: Ju-87

The problem with the Scott is that it is too potent in certain synergetic situations. This means certain maps vs certain match Ups with certain unit compositions.

In general: long maps, shielded by either at guns or Jackson's and rifleman with double bars.

The Jackson has the same problematic synergistic aspect. On short and clustered maps, it doesn't shine and people call it a glass cannon. On long open maps, it dominates and tanks away at everything that resembles a vehicle. You can't dive it, since it is fast and shielded by double bar rifleman hordes etc.

This isn't a problem with the Scott, it is a problem of certain builds being so well supplemented by the Scott, that the Scott itself becomes too potent.

Changing this requires the change of the USF faction in a considerable way, since it doesn't have that much going for it at the moment...

This guy gets it ^

But as far as ""The problem is a lot of the USF roster is so strong it does that to other factions", the same argument can be made for every faction (minus UKF atm)." That is entirely untrue because when other factions have this done to them through certain units, they have certain heavier drawbacks than that of the jackson. For exmaple the StuG range is its drawback. The JP4s lack of turret is its drawback. There is no massive drawback to getting more jacksons since they can tackle any armor and are highly mobile. If the drawback of getting only armor pieces that can only engage other armor, we let USF enjoy the freedom of not suffering from those drawbacks because of popcap abuse. A fun and unique mechanic!

I also said nothing about 2x scotts, others did. I can argue for only 1 scott and 1 jackson, which is still unsiegeable unless you have APCBC JT or something, or you pray your opponet screws up.

This guy gets it ^

But as far as ""The problem is a lot of the USF roster is so strong it does that to other factions", the same argument can be made for every faction (minus UKF atm)." That is entirely untrue because when other factions have this done to them through certain units, they have certain heavier drawbacks than that of the jackson. For exmaple the StuG range is its drawback. The JP4s lack of turret is its drawback. There is no massive drawback to getting more jacksons since they can tackle any armor and are highly mobile. If the drawback of getting only armor pieces that can only engage other armor, we let USF enjoy the freedom of not suffering from those drawbacks because of popcap abuse. A fun and unique mechanic!

I also said nothing about 2x scotts, others did. I can argue for only 1 scott and 1 jackson, which is still unsiegeable unless you have APCBC JT or something, or you pray your opponet screws up.

One Jackson isn't going to stop an armor push on itself. What the point here, to say "he has a Jackson, game over!". Jackson drawback is everywhere else: T1 or T2 for early support but not both until backtech. No meashield, there is no brumbar or panther to sponge damage and use armor to deflect shots. No Pzshreck that barely never bounce, no Pzwerfer to insta wipe support weapon crew etc... Not to mention Oshteer Commander aren't there to fulfill holes in your roster but to give you additional punch for your strategy.

I play enough USF to tell you 1 Jackson is nice to keep your enemy from walking over you but your opponent need to make serious mistakes to lose a piece of armor vs it. And yes, usually when the jackson hit the field mistakes are more often made but this has nothing to do with the unit.

One Jackson isn't going to stop an armor push on itself. What the point here, to say "he has a Jackson, game over!". Jackson drawback is everywhere else: T1 or T2 for early support but not both until backtech. No meashield, there is no brumbar or panther to sponge damage and use armor to deflect shots. No Pzshreck that barely never bounce, no Pzwerfer to insta wipe support weapon crew etc... Not to mention Oshteer Commander aren't there to fulfill holes in your roster but to give you additional punch for your strategy.

I play enough USF to tell you 1 Jackson is nice to keep your enemy from walking over you but your opponent need to make serious mistakes to lose a piece of armor vs it. And yes, usually when the jackson hit the field mistakes are more often made but this has nothing to do with the unit.

1 jackson is completly enough to stop an armor push lol. You dive a jackson with a single panther or P4? I don't even know what to say vs that. Jackson shoots first because of range and has high mobility to reverse. Unless your opponet is braindead and just charges through snares and potential mines, or you're letting your jackson eat shots because you're inside his attack range that's a L2P issue there.

1 jackson is completly enough to stop an armor push lol. You dive a jackson with a single panther or P4? I don't even know what to say vs that. Jackson shoots first because of range and has high mobility to reverse. Unless your opponet is braindead and just charges through snares and potential mines, or you're letting your jackson eat shots because you're inside his attack range that's a L2P issue there.

You should have your second pz4 the moment the Jackson hit the field and if you decided to tech T4, just stale until you get what you want/need

You should have your second pz4 the moment the Jackson hit the field and if you decided to tech T4, just stale until you get what you want/need

K well since you don't understand how pricing, dives or snares work, nor play anything besides USF. I'm just gonna go ahead and say you don't know how counters works in this game.

K well since you don't understand how pricing, dives or snares work, nor play anything besides USF. I'm just gonna go ahead and say you don't know how counters works in this game.

Yeah, sure.
Go ahead and say whatever you want, it is not going to make it more true or relevant for the topic.

Yeah, sure.
Go ahead and say whatever you want, it is not going to make it more true or relevant for the topic.

Just about as relevent as you thinking my responses are out of nowhere when you think pschrecks counter scotts

Go back to playing USF if you're not going to be helpful

I disagree with the idea of overwhelming your opponet with armor for the purpose of this thread. If you're trying to out flank and dive a scott, there will be a jackson there to stop you. Your target then becomes the jackson, not the scott. If you're able to get off 3 shots through smoke canister while not risking losses from the jackson I'd be impressed. So impressed that I'd say it was probably the USF players fault, or the unit got caught pathing or something. You simply don't have enough time to all in like that with the threat of snares and jacksons and skill smoke, as i'm sure everyone loves to experience vs ostheer.

Well if you have an equivalent amount of armor (so like 1 p4 1 panther or 2-3 ost p4s against 2 scotts and a jackson) you should be able to steamroll his one jackson since scotts don't help very much in the AT department. That's already a victory right there. Then you run away from his riflemen and at nades, repair, and come finish off his scotts later while he's still down a tank. While you won't immediately have a ton of tanks like in this scenario, you will at some point in an even game and once you can 2v1 the jackson you're very likely to kill it if his only other armor is scotts. The jackson dies in 4 tank shots and won't ever bounce anything, so 2 tanks attacking a lone jackson will kill it very quickly just on virtue of out DPSing it (especially if one is a panther with extra health to take jackson shots with) and USF snares take a long time to fire so you'll have that much extra mobility even if he does snare you. At that point his infantry support doesn't matter as much because he won't have any armor to come finish your diving tanks off with. You also don't have to worry about real mines most of the time when playing against USF.

Let's also remember that ostheer tanks still die in 4 shots when they have the (doctrinal) skill smoke and can actually shoot back at tanks. There's also always attack ground, which only works sometimes, but still.

If he only has 1 scott I would say a dive wouldn't even be called for and one should just focus on map control and playing normally instead.

Just about as relevent as you thinking my responses are out of nowhere when you think pschrecks counter scotts

Go back to playing USF if you're not going to be helpful

Pshreck counter Scott if you keep moving until you fire. But they are better to be used vs the Jackson who will need to backward and then give you the opportunity to reach the Scott.

For sure I'll go back playing USF, don't worry about that.
The problem here is that you make it personal, like I shouldn't be giving advise and strategies tips that don't fit your vision of the game. I mean, telling me L2P, seriously is this your last argument? I have to learn to play because I explain how to counter a specific strat and you don't like it thar way? What have you explained here, nothing, your opinion is there is no counter cuz Jackson. You are the one putting this unit on a level it doesn't belong like if 2 Pz4 couldn't counter it... Because there are snares like if the Ostheer player didn't had his own snare, own pak, own Stug and HMg42, long range Grenadier you can simply A-move late game so you're always at good range etc... to support a global assault.
Each faction has its pro and cons and I don't see the Ostheer faction being left behind at the moment. It's quite the opposite today. So respect each faction, respect the player and give advices so each one can forge his own strategy, there is no perfect solution and thanks for that, how boring it would be if you could just dive with your panther and don't care about snare and tank destroyers like in the old time. But maybe that's what you want with you constant focus on the Jackson, like many Axis Fanboy on the forum who are so imaginative when it comes to think a redesign for the Jackson on something that could just stand vs mediums or just stand vs super heavies but useless vs mediums.

Pshreck counter Scott if you keep moving until you fire. But they are better to be used vs the Jackson who will need to backward and then give you the opportunity to reach the Scott.

For sure I'll go back playing USF, don't worry about that.
The problem here is that you make it personal, like I shouldn't be giving advise and strategies tips that don't fit your vision of the game. I mean, telling me L2P, seriously is this your last argument? I have to learn to play because I explain how to counter a specific strat and you don't like it thar way? What have you explained here, nothing, your opinion is there is no counter cuz Jackson. You are the one putting this unit on a level it doesn't belong like if 2 Pz4 couldn't counter it... Because there are snares like if the Ostheer player didn't had his own snare, own pak, own Stug and HMg42, long range Grenadier you can simply A-move late game so you're always at good range etc... to support a global assault.
Each faction has its pro and cons and I don't see the Ostheer faction being left behind at the moment. It's quite the opposite today. So respect each faction, respect the player and give advices so each one can forge his own strategy, there is no perfect solution and thanks for that, how boring it would be if you could just dive with your panther and don't care about snare and tank destroyers like in the old time. But maybe that's what you want with you constant focus on the Jackson, like many Axis Fanboy on the forum who are so imaginative when it comes to think a redesign for the Jackson on something that could just stand vs mediums or just stand vs super heavies but useless vs mediums.

The problem is you don't comprehend my posts, and then offer solutions that don't make sense, and then tell me I don't understand your post. How well does "Just keep moving until you fire" work for bazookas vs brumbar? Experienced players use attack ground for howitzers because you can make the shots more precise and predict movement. Furthermore, how the hell are you supposed to expect pschrecks to go through their full reload of 7.5 seconds while being both slower and lower range than a scott, AND have 100% accuracy for all 4 shots, AND go through smoke canister? If that is the best option to counter a scott then there is a problem with the unit, not "asymmetric design XD".

There is no perfect solution? There are loads of perfect solutions to this game, that's what a counter system is built on. Your opponet spams infantry? Solution is get an MG. Opponet has MG? Solution is get indirect. Honestly if you think I'm axis biased you should read my posts more instead of just looking at a playercard. Or better yet try and create counter arguements as to tell me what's wrong with my posts instead of saying

So much true that I wonder why USF isn't top1 pick during tournament. Hell their late game is completely OP by your description.

sarcastically. Which is literally what I did in reply to you in the previous post.

Like the entire post I'm replying to is just your own view of what my posts are which you think don't hold value because I tell you what's wrong with it.