How to fix UKF: Unit overview

UKF as a whole is practically receiving a huge rework by a simple change. If the snare goes live, our general perception of several unit might change.

With that been said, i wouldn't touch any of the mostly early-mid game unit at all. AEC/AT gun for example, will benefit greatly from having a snare.

If any other change is needed for early-mid after that:

IS: only cut down initial mp cost by 10/20mp which would give them a slight better map presence.
Indirect fire: i don't think we will see a mobile mortar, non doctrinaly, so i guess we will have to double down with base howitzers. Snipers could had their flare range extended and/or cost reduced.
Bofor: fix the AA bug
Comet: buff a bit scatter. Call it a day.


I'm eerie to say what thing really needs to be changed in order to make UKF viable again. IF only we had comment from any top 10 for a better insight.

Brits are a problem faction that I believe will have a majority of its issues fixed with snares. AEC will likely be super strong now that it has reliable snare support and should help the brits deal with that LV weakness they have had for ages.

Honestly in my opinion bolster is what makes Tommies such a problem unit, early they are bad because they are a 4 man 280 mp squad that doesn't preform well but after bolster become very strong in addition to good scaling into late game. My proposal is make them start at a 5 man and remove the cover bonuses(Penalties?) completely. Therefore you will get a solid 280 mp squad that preforms like a 280 mp squad without having to dump a bunch of resources into side tech to get that 280mp squad to preform correctly. Tommies may warrant a nerf because of this change though. Another option would be to make them a 260 mp squad.

Since the mobile mortar will never be implemented maybe a pack up where you get some resources back can be implmented. Therefore the mortar will be more useful than it is now. I dont think it should return 100% of the manpower back but something like 50%-75% (Not sure really) get returned.

Cromwell needs a buff and currently I would rather take any other medium tank from any other faction. A scatter buff is needed for sure and maybe an mg (?) buff. The Cromwell has been suffering since it lost its broken crush ability and its been subpar ever since.

Churchill should get a rear armor nerf so flanking vehicles can reliably pen it. Other than that the Churchill is fine.

Comet has the same issues as the Cromwell. And should be adjusted as such. Maybe a shift from being a generalist to a panther like vehicle could be necessary.

The Firefly should be helped greatly by snares, maybe now it can actually chase and kill something without having to use muni every time.

The Vickers is still the worst mg in the game. Lower dmg and increase suppression.

As I've stated in my post above Sections don't need another bonus in cover. They ALREADY have the best RA already and even without cover they match a gren squad. Not exactly "Ostruppen level bad."

U want the comet to have almost the same pen as panther, same health as panther and retain its better splash damage and armor than panther? If u want a 60 range 200+ pen TD, all allied factions have one and none of the axis factions have any. There's no need for the comet to overshadow the firefly. And like I just said, the fact that axis have poor pen on stug/jagd make thick allied armor very valuable so the comet has good durability there.

If u can't understand the facts I'm presenting, well, you've demonstrated EXACTLY what is wrong with the forum. Do everyone a favor and call another mod to voice their opinions on this issue. God forbid u have any clout with the balance team.

There is no need to insult anyone for disagreeing with them.

I would say that the issue isn't with Infantry Sections being horrendous out of cover, as most engagements in-game happen between infantry in cover. The issue lies with the moving penalties applied to Infantry Sections, which is probably why they feel lackluster.

Also, due to the fact that they cost more, and are designed to perform the best at long range, Infantry Sections are supposed to beat Grenadiers due to the cost difference. You would expect a more expensive unit that is designed to perform well at the same range to perform better than a less expensive one.

You make a good argument about the Comet. I agree that giving the Comet my proposed changes would make them too powerful. That being said, I would still go with a penetration increase, as buffing it by giving it less scatter would mean more consistent anti-infantry damage, which coupled with it's RoF might make it too strong.

Not sure why Brit players think 0.8 RA isn't enough on their mainlines and want ANOTHER 0.9 RA just for being in cover. Name another mainline with 0.8. Yes they're not as good outside cover, but are they useless as ostruppen without cover. Not at all, they can match a gren squad in long range if both are without cover.

The AEC DEFINATELY doesn't need any buffs. In fact, I think it should be up for a nerf after giving snares and section mines. But knowing Relic and the balance team, the AEC shouldn't be touched. Comparing aec to the puma isn't a fair comparison. With the aec, u only give up bofors, with puma u give up free heals which is far more costlier than an entirely optional emplacement. And nobody rushes mech hq for a puma while aec comes out in 5 mins at the same time of first 222. And to Katitof (and the other trolls) who have said that 444 "hardcounters" aec, I've already explained that it's a softcounter as AEC can delete a 222 in 3 shots and 444 costs 400mp vs 240mp and 222s take longer to repair as they aren't bulletproof. By allied logic a cost disparity of a massive 140mp SHOULD be a hardcounter since riflemen have twice the dps of grens at point blank for a mere 40mp.

The only thing that needs to be changed about Brits is simply the mortar, I think should be allowed to pack up and move for a 100mp cost, it'll need an escort as during transit, it will be like the other mortar teams with 4 men 1.25 RA. As well Comet gets a bit more reliable splash damage against infantry.

As usual the original poster needs to (can everyone guess?) LLLLLLLL222222PPPPPPPP. Because clearly he doesn't understand why the mg on the aec was nerfed in the first place and like the typical Brit scrub he is, he calls a unit that is no longer batshit op (ie. comet) "completely useless" when it's just slightly underperforming. Just like everyone who complains the croc is useless because it's no longer batshit op. AND he wants comet to be reverted to the op state it used to be - 0.75 moving acc, better pen, etc, while he fails to realize the panther has less armor and was always worse at anti-inf. And he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about comet being more expensive than panther as comet and panther have identical costs (ok 10mp, so the trolls don't come screaming).

I think you've missed the point of my thread, the issue with a lot of the british faction, isn't that the units are underperforming massively, I'm not just being some salty tea-aboo. The issue is that they become irrelevant due to the strength of other units in the faction or their counters, like the AEC, the AEC is very effective right now, but by getting it you forgo other armour (e.g. a centaur or cromwell) for several extra minutes and whilst a puma is more than a match for most allied armour and scales into a light flanker and tank destroyer in the late game, the AEC can become redundant and often gets sidelined as a cheap command vehicle. That is why I suggested a role change into a puma-like vehicle, however yes, with snares the aec, like the firefly has the potential to become very potent. Like wise with the comet, I am not saying it should become OP again as it was strong vs all before, what I suggested again was a role change into something more similar to the jackson or alternatively to be similar the sherman 76. I know the comet actually performs ok. "BAD" and "USELESS" mean different things as it currently serves a role that is filled by it's peers better.

Also an issue with sections is that they do not really function as "main-line infantry" as you said particularly, they function as "psuedo-elite infantry" similar to grenadiers, except grenadiers brawl a lot more effectively than tommies in the late game due to being better out of cover and having awesome vet bonuses.

As for the attack on me:
Telling me I 'obviously' don't know what I'm talking about in regard to the entire British faction solely because I forgot whilst typing this that the panther fuel cost was adjusted a few patches ago seems like a shallow point. It kinda just makes it sound like you 'obviously' don't know what you're talking about friendo. (also it actually seems you forgot that the comet requires Hammer specialisation which costs 50 fuel making the comet more expensive, so I was correct.)

Unfortunately, telling me to "Learn to play" makes you sound like a child, especially with that obnoxious "(can everyone guess?)" in front of it big man. I like to think we're more mature than call of duty kids here.

And whilst over 1,000 hours of UKF alone obviously doesn't necessarily make me a good player by default, It does mean I have seen Brits at all points in their long balance process and have a large amount of experience in using the faction as a whole, which I would hope, makes at least some of my input valuable in hopefully improving a game I like and care about which was the point of this thread.

Furthermore, 1 of my main points with this thread was to increase the visibility of people suggestions which you really aren't helping with, especially by provoking me and others to make replies like this, please can we get back on topic.

Brits are a problem faction that I believe will have a majority of its issues fixed with snares. AEC will likely be super strong now that it has reliable snare support and should help the brits deal with that LV weakness they have had for ages.

Honestly in my opinion bolster is what makes Tommies such a problem unit, early they are bad because they are a 4 man 280 mp squad that doesn't preform well but after bolster become very strong in addition to good scaling into late game. My proposal is make them start at a 5 man and remove the cover bonuses(Penalties?) completely. Therefore you will get a solid 280 mp squad that preforms like a 280 mp squad without having to dump a bunch of resources into side tech to get that 280mp squad to preform correctly. Tommies may warrant a nerf because of this change though. Another option would be to make them a 260 mp squad.

Since the mobile mortar will never be implemented maybe a pack up where you get some resources back can be implmented. Therefore the mortar will be more useful than it is now. I dont think it should return 100% of the manpower back but something like 50%-75% (Not sure really) get returned.

Cromwell needs a buff and currently I would rather take any other medium tank from any other faction. A scatter buff is needed for sure and maybe an mg (?) buff. The Cromwell has been suffering since it lost its broken crush ability and its been subpar ever since.

Churchill should get a rear armor nerf so flanking vehicles can reliably pen it. Other than that the Churchill is fine.

Comet has the same issues as the Cromwell. And should be adjusted as such. Maybe a shift from being a generalist to a panther like vehicle could be necessary.

The Firefly should be helped greatly by snares, maybe now it can actually chase and kill something without having to use muni every time.

The Vickers is still the worst mg in the game. Lower dmg and increase suppression.

I agree with basically all of this.

Snares will compliment almost the entire UKF roster which is nice. And I'd trade the current tommies for your suggestion any day. The cromwell still performs ok-ish for only 110 fuel, it's nice soft counter to infantry and it'l deal with an OST p4 if need be. but I guess it's no where near as good as the sherman which costs the same.

The Churchill definitely needs that actually, the amount of times I've seen even panthers bounce of it's rear armour recently is funny, especially when not even KTs and Jagtigers can do the same after their nerf.

The issue with the vickers is it's one of the best MGs in the game, just not for the british, give the vickers to axis and it's awesome, which essentially makes the vickers a handicap, especially with how expensive british infantry are and how poorly they deal with machine guns early game. Increased suppression and less damage, if even only a little would help brits to no end.

UKF as a whole is practically receiving a huge rework by a simple change. If the snare goes live, our general perception of several unit might change.

With that been said, i wouldn't touch any of the mostly early-mid game unit at all. AEC/AT gun for example, will benefit greatly from having a snare.

If any other change is needed for early-mid after that:

IS: only cut down initial mp cost by 10/20mp which would give them a slight better map presence.
Indirect fire: i don't think we will see a mobile mortar, non doctrinaly, so i guess we will have to double down with base howitzers. Snipers could had their flare range extended and/or cost reduced.
Bofor: fix the AA bug
Comet: buff a bit scatter. Call it a day.


I'm eerie to say what thing really needs to be changed in order to make UKF viable again. IF only we had comment from any top 10 for a better insight.

It seems like not a lot of top 10 players play brits very often. We don’t have anyone (to my knowledge) who is known for being great brits like DevM is with usf or whatever. My conclusion is that none of them want to waste their time being pulled down by the faction when better ones exist to be played currently, but that’s up to interpretation. We did see the GCS numbers on their pick rates and win rates though.

Fireflies will see a huge performance increase with snares definitely. But I think this may just serve to make the comet even less relevant. The comet's penetration may turn out to be fine, my issue right now is, like I said, if it doesn't miss, it bounces, if it could hit it's shots, it's penetration might bug me less. Multiple times have I tried to surprise flank a panther only to watch it wiff it's first shot into outer space and then bounce with it's second off it's side just for the panther to turn its turret and hit first shot whilst retreating.

Sherman 76s and easy eights have similar pen but fire twice as fast, cost significantly less, can repair themselves and are better against infantry. Only comet advantage right now seems to be it's trolly rocket proof armour.

Yeah I know what you’re saying about the comet for sure. I always have a serious lack of faith in all my tanks when I play brits as well. I think the moving accuracy debuffs were a bit much (or maybe its base accuracy is too low) as it still is suppose to be a cruiser and the panther has more range, penetration, and armor and a pintle 42 that can kill infantry fairly well. I remember people used to say the exact same things about the ostheer panther’s accuracy and it eventually got changed, so maybe something will happen. The only reason I build comets is because they’re tougher and faster than fireflies and can shoot smoke and WP rounds.

So yeah I do think it’s penetration is fine but its accuracy could stand to go up. Doesn’t really make sense that it misses as many shots as it does. Its scatter could also use a buff too, it seems odd that the p4 basically outperforms it 1 for 1 in terms of anti infantry.

Geez, are you inciting a forum axis-vs-allies war or what?? You couldn't be any more wrong (and off-topic) on that subject. Just stop it, please, even mod asked you to.

I enjoy reading the forums, and I'd rather read juicy discussions how the snare will affect UKF - I haven't had much chance to play with or against them in the mod yet. I would love to see how things change for UKF in the big picture of things and to read how others perceive the changes.

It seems like not a lot of top 10 players play brits very often. We don’t have anyone (to my knowledge) who is known for being great brits like DevM is with usf or whatever. My conclusion is that none of them want to waste their time being pulled down by the faction when better ones exist to be played currently, but that’s up to interpretation. We did see the GCS numbers on their pick rates and win rates though.

Yeah I know what you’re saying about the comet for sure. I always have a serious lack of faith in all my tanks when I play brits as well. I think the moving accuracy debuffs were a bit much (or maybe its base accuracy is too low) as it still is suppose to be a cruiser and the panther has more range, penetration, and armor and a pintle 42 that can kill infantry fairly well. I remember people used to say the exact same things about the ostheer panther’s accuracy and it eventually got changed, so maybe something will happen. The only reason I build comets is because they’re tougher and faster than fireflies and can shoot smoke and WP rounds.

So yeah I do think it’s penetration is fine but its accuracy could stand to go up. Doesn’t really make sense that it misses as many shots as it does. Its scatter could also use a buff too, it seems odd that the p4 basically outperforms it 1 for 1 in terms of anti infantry.

I've been trying to use the comet more recently if I'm given an easy game or whatever:

Yeah I think it's definitely the combination which breaks the unit, it seems to pen ok when it hits but the amount of times I have watched comets miss for seemingly no reason multiple times in a row reduces it's 'supposed' dps massively, especially when against panthers of which it has a fairly high chance to bounce as well results in comets firing over 3 or 4 times with almost nothing to show for it. For a tank that is supposed to move and flank, you seem to get penalised for doing so, it just makes the comet not enjoyable to use. So perhaps a penetration buff may not be the first point of call to fix it.

With the prevalence of axis super heavies right now however, even with snares, with how much the firefly is set to improve, I still however think it's unlikely I will rush to use the comet without a pen buff, whether in raw stats or in the form of a munitions based ability, mostly due to the current meta. Although it makes sense for the firefly to be the better choice for fighting super-heavies, fireflies can get overwhelmed by panther dives easily, although with snares it will make panther dives a little less inviting so we'll see.

I saw as well people were saying improving the scatter gives the unwanted bonus of making it godlike anti infantry too. What about if instead of improving scatter the comet was given an accuracy bonus against tanks, similar to what the 6 pdr previously had with light vehicles?

Um why is hoverbacon comparing comets with doctrinal units like ez8 and 76mmSherman? Yes doctrinal units are SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER than stock units in either performance, cost efficiency or both. He obviously hasn't played Ostheer as from experience ost p4 are just as inaccurate as Brit tanks. And he just mentioned the fact that comets and other brit armor can shoot smoke and WP shells non-doc while axis armor has just a overpriced blitz and doctrinal smoke.

I find that Ost and Brit tank accuracy is below the other 3 factions when it comes to anti-inf. I doubt Relic will make these in line with the other 3.

I’d rather have one easy 8 or 76mm than one comet. They’re better at almost everything except tanking shots, which is the Churchill’s job anyway. This including the fact that the comet is supposed to be better than them in a 1 on 1 vacuum since it’s more expensive.

Axis armor just has an overpriced blitz? That thing saves tanks or makes dives so much better, and the okw variant gives 100% on the move accuracy IIRC. While WP and smoke are great, blitz is by no means as useless as you make it out to be. The doctrinal smoke on ostheer and okw tanks is also better for escaping, but is doctrinal and fills a different role.

Yeah the panzer IV’s anti infantry capabilities are definitely nothing to speak of, the ostwind is clearly an AT vehicle, and the brummbar is just absolutely terrible against infantry. Also, what’s a pintle mg42? It must suck (Sarcasm, if you couldn’t tell).

^^^^ this. He tells me I obviously don't know what I'm talking about, thinks Blitzkrieg and smoke are bad. XD

Honestly guys, we should probably just stop responding to this troll, he's been warned by the mods to pack it in, if he keeps it up he'll get himself banned. I wouldn't bother giving him the satisfaction.

One thing about the Bolster Infantry Sections upgrade is that Infantry Sections are always the price of a 5-man squad. The price should be 224 for a 4-man squad, and that's a pretty major difference. The upgrade is mandatory for using infantry, partly because of the manpower premium you're paying.
(This isn't true for Sappers and I have no idea why when looking at the code)
Maybe something could be done with that to improve the faction?

I'm just speculating here, but it seems like UKF's main problem is that its units are highly effective in certain situations, but they have very little field presence otherwise. The mortar pit, for instance- for a pretty basic unit, it has to do a lot of damage to pay for itself.

Invissed a couple posts, one for quoting said post.

IncendiaryRounds, I will say it one more time. There is no need to insult or attack people for disagreeing with them.

One thing about the Bolster Infantry Sections upgrade is that Infantry Sections are always the price of a 5-man squad. The price should be 224 for a 4-man squad, and that's a pretty major difference. The upgrade is mandatory for using infantry, partly because of the manpower premium you're paying.
(This isn't true for Sappers and I have no idea why when looking at the code)
Maybe something could be done with that to improve the faction?

I'm just speculating here, but it seems like UKF's main problem is that its units are highly effective in certain situations, but they have very little field presence otherwise. The mortar pit, for instance- for a pretty basic unit, it has to do a lot of damage to pay for itself.

Meh. I think there's much bigger problems for brits right now, and the only thing a cost decrease would help is the early game, where they actually do somewhat ok. A slight decrease might be reasonable, but again, it's not the biggest issue right now. If we want to complain about overpriced british infantry, there's infiltration commandos XD

One thing about the Bolster Infantry Sections upgrade is that Infantry Sections are always the price of a 5-man squad. The price should be 224 for a 4-man squad, and that's a pretty major difference. The upgrade is mandatory for using infantry, partly because of the manpower premium you're paying.
(This isn't true for Sappers and I have no idea why when looking at the code)
Maybe something could be done with that to improve the faction?

I'm just speculating here, but it seems like UKF's main problem is that its units are highly effective in certain situations, but they have very little field presence otherwise. The mortar pit, for instance- for a pretty basic unit, it has to do a lot of damage to pay for itself.

The thing with the mortar pit is that it's actually extremely good at doing that damage to pay for itself, it's issue lies in not only is it static so it lacks field presence but also that being static it can't run away, the brit player must not at any point have to full retreat or the pit is dead. Whereas axis mortars can be retreated.

Once dead as well, it can be very difficult to get another one up unless the axis player effectively lets you, essentially meaning you have no indirect fire for the rest of the match, unless of course you are playing mobile assault or royal artillery.

Also a price decrease for infantry sections when unbolstered seems very fair and would go a long way early game.

The thing with the mortar pit is that it's actually extremely good at doing that damage to pay for itself, it's issue lies in not only is it static so it lacks field presence but also that being static it can't run away, the brit player must not at any point have to full retreat or the pit is dead. Whereas axis mortars can be retreated.

Once dead as well, it can be very difficult to get another one up unless the axis player effectively lets you, essentially meaning you have no indirect fire for the rest of the match, unless of course you are playing mobile assault or royal artillery.

Also a price decrease for infantry sections when unbolstered seems very fair and would go a long way early game.

A refit and refuel option for emplacements (as someone already suggested) would be a huge improvement. Of course not as great as implementing that mod which someone kept mentioning all around.

I kinda disagree with the cheaper IS before bolster, since it would make bolster even worse than it is. Better to just return them to the pre-patch status, its not like they were OP before

I've been trying to use the comet more recently if I'm given an easy game or whatever:

Yeah I think it's definitely the combination which breaks the unit, it seems to pen ok when it hits but the amount of times I have watched comets miss for seemingly no reason multiple times in a row reduces it's 'supposed' dps massively, especially when against panthers of which it has a fairly high chance to bounce as well results in comets firing over 3 or 4 times with almost nothing to show for it. For a tank that is supposed to move and flank, you seem to get penalised for doing so, it just makes the comet not enjoyable to use. So perhaps a penetration buff may not be the first point of call to fix it.

With the prevalence of axis super heavies right now however, even with snares, with how much the firefly is set to improve, I still however think it's unlikely I will rush to use the comet without a pen buff, whether in raw stats or in the form of a munitions based ability, mostly due to the current meta. Although it makes sense for the firefly to be the better choice for fighting super-heavies, fireflies can get overwhelmed by panther dives easily, although with snares it will make panther dives a little less inviting so we'll see.

I saw as well people were saying improving the scatter gives the unwanted bonus of making it godlike anti infantry too. What about if instead of improving scatter the comet was given an accuracy bonus against tanks, similar to what the 6 pdr previously had with light vehicles?

Yeah comets do get penalized for moving. They have a -50% on the move accuracy debuff, so it’s best to hit stop just before it shoots. Problem there is that, as you said, it’s supposed to be moving and flanking and being aggressive. IMO it’s not even analogous to the panther in that way because you really do have to flank larger tanks to do any damage instead of pegging them from max range, which works fairly well for panthers. Their base accuracy still seems a bit low, so that may play a factor too.

Comets should be able to exert a decent amount of anti infantry pressure. Right now it feels like you just have to run away from infantry and even if it had better scatter, the AoE does not seem very large. The most I’ve ever seen it kill in a shot that actually hit is 2 models that were literally right next to each other. In reality, it’s not supposed to be “allied panther” but just a larger, better, more expensive cromwell IMO. It’s supposed to be a generalist, but gets beat by most other faction’s generalists in a lot of areas except health and armor.