Rework Conscripts/Oorah

Currently, for the cost that Oorah has, it simply allows the conscripts to do way too much. And also, it pretty much has a crazy effect in the Russian earlygame where it's certainly viable to spam oorah to death.

So, this is one of the things that needs to be reworked. It now works exactly like Fire-Up for Rangers/Airborne which Relic said they wanted to remove but instead, effectively added in a main line unit.

My suggestion

1. Make Oorah Doctrinal. This should really go in the Guards rifles/Conscript support tactics.
2. Make PPSH a researchable ability for 200 MP 50 Fuel. That way, Conscripts will continue to have a decent DPS without having the ridiculous "fire up ability" from minute 1.

What do you guys think?

You do realize that Oorah costs 10 munitions right? It used to be free...then, i was 5 munitions, now it is 10. When you oorah, it effectively reduces the amount of molotovs or AT nades that can be thrown.

And, it doesn't work like fire-up. Conscripts don't shoot while they move.

So no...I think Oorah is fine they way it is.

it's nothing like fire up.

while i agree that having an ability like oorah, that certainly resembles fire up/heroic charge a bit (although it is not as strong due to the unaffected received suppression/suppression threshold/suppression values) on a non-doctrinal T0 unit without any sort of teching is not exactly what i would have liked to see in coh2, there are several factors that at least kind of even it out a bit:
a) suppressed units can't oorah, and oorah does not make the unit suppression immune. so if you can catch conscripts with an MG, your opponent either just wasted 10 ammo, or he can't oorah out of the suppression.
b) at least in the last patch, flanking an MG was pretty much worthless, so using oorah for the movement speed was pretty much solely used for getting in/out of cover faster, or to chase vehicles and at nade them.
c) while 10 ammo is not a whole lot, spamming it WILL cut into your ammo quite a bit. spamming oorah = no flamers, no mines, no molotovs, no at nades, no other abilities (doctrinal or not).

tl;dr: spamming oorah is a tradeoff and means no ammo for other things. with flanks being not as important/strong as in vcoh, oorah is not as strong as it looks on paper.

No, we already worked on balancing that, atm it's fine as it is.

I'd trade Oorah for lmg42 and pfaust any day...it's fine as it is.
on 5 muni I used to spam it a lot, now people only use it for flanking, getting into building, that means it's the right cost

1. Make Oorah Doctrinal. This should really go in the Guards rifles/Conscript support tactics.
2. Make PPSH a researchable ability for 200 MP 50 Fuel. That way, Conscripts will continue to have a decent DPS without having the ridiculous "fire up ability" from minute 1.

I like this idea. Might result in some more soviet doctrine variety too.

tl;dr: spamming oorah is a tradeoff and means no ammo for other things. with flanks being not as important/strong as in vcoh, oorah is not as strong as it looks on paper.

No and never, I can have my 8 cons spam spamming oorah whole game, still able to rain molotov, rain AT nade, spam mines and firestorm MG

oorah isnt really the issue, its the cheap molotov ability. 15 mun molotovs are the best nades in the game, they will kill squads outright if your attention is elsewhere for more than a second or two which is very possible mid to late game.

Worse molotovs give the soviet player the advantage to use buildings at will while the german player cannot reciprocate. This forces the german player to start on a defensive foot from minute 1, made worse on easy cutoff maps like kholdny right spawn with buildings all over the asymmetrical cutoff.

Not conscripts but 30 muni mines, yeah gl hf. With RNG I would estimate I lose an entire 4 man squad to a 30 mun mine at least once every day or two of casual gaming.

Or better yet oorah your conscripts into a nerfed mg42's cone, HTD, throw molotov, laugh.

use the mg42 to protect your troops and not the other way around?

scout around and cut the enemy off with the mg42?

but no

you place an mg42 in the front,
the enemy has spotted you
sends a conscript squad over

oraah and before you know it they're next to you because mg42 vision << range

pay attention next time, you'll notice the difference

how about making it so that any of the three abilities (orahh, molotov and at nade) reset all cooldown timers? That way you can't orahh past an mg and just throw a molotov and pave the way for all other conscripts and no longer are you able to orahh to close-in on a vehicle and throw an at nade (which I found to be bad design).
What do you guys think?

Oorah! is fine. 10 munis is a lot for what you get -> faster move for a short period. That's all you get and there is the effect of less damage output as the conscripts won't fire while moving.

So much exaggeration in this thread...

"No and never, I can have my 8 cons spam spamming oorah whole game, still able to rain molotov, rain AT nade, spam mines and firestorm MG"

"It now works exactly like Fire-Up for Rangers/Airborne "

These are demonstrably false. The balance forum isn't a faction popularity contest people. If you think something is OP then you should be able to show that without making stuff up.

A lot of people in this thread are trying to argue Oorah need adjusting because of molotov's or that there should be a PPSH upgrade ... that's more or less a completely different issue to Oorah! Molotov's are a separate global upgrade and so should be balanced through its own mechanics not by adjusting Oorah! Personally, I think they are fine anyway, they are the only thing Soviets get to deal with LMG's, not to mention houses. That's a different topic however.

PPSH's are a completely different issue to Oorah, so don't know what they are doing being discussed here?

Most people would agree that the midgame DPS of the conscript is not that great. So changing around ppsh can solve its DPS problems that it faces (much like a BAR upgrade). Essentially, what I'm saying is switching Oorah with ppsh.

This way, you have a unit which can do decent damage to infantry throughout the whole game without the doctrine while not having them run straight into an MG for a molotov.

And also, apart from mines and maybe the odd Guards ability (which doesn't use too much muni anyway) and the occasional offmap, name any other places where the Russians really burn any muni. You can still spam Oorah to death, especially in the midgame.

Before, Conscript spam was viable (hell, I was actually conscript spamming before). Now, it's ridiculously strong.

EDIT: Please note that I did not say, completely change up Oorah, I'm just saying, switch Oorah with PPSH.

the way Oorah is kind ok, i just hope they give that when a conscript use Oorah ability will receive a negative cover and can't HTD during Oorah will be great. i mean Oorah means charge right? feel so weird seeing conscript use Oorah and HTD together

Make it cost fuel! Conscripts run on diesel anyways, right?

Make it cost fuel! Conscripts run on diesel anyways, right?

So did BARs/Pineapples

And vetted Grens

molotovs are the best nades in the game, they will kill squads outright if your attention is elsewhere for more than a second or two which is very possible mid to late game.

that's called "microing". I think it has always existed since coh1 and it is the main reason of defeat in most mathces

Make it cost fuel! Conscripts run on diesel anyways, right?

nope, now they run on CH4, rear propulsion. They are far more environment-friendly XD

oorah isnt really the issue, its the cheap molotov ability. 15 mun molotovs are the best nades in the game, they will kill squads outright if your attention is elsewhere for more than a second or two which is very possible mid to late game.

Not really, unless the squad is really low health, molotov takes allot of time on mobile infantry. Putting it's effect on garrisoned units aside, I think its the worse grande in the game, and perhaps that's why its the cheapest.

Not really, unless the squad is really low health, molotov takes allot of time on mobile infantry. Putting it's effect on garrisoned units aside, I think its the worse grande in the game, and perhaps that's why its the cheapest.

Molotov has a decent chance to instakill at least one guy in the squad. Putting it's effect on tanks aside, Panther is the worst vehicle in the game. Forcing you to abandon cover/buildings is not a small deal. I wish they'd just replace it with F1s or something.

Putting it's effect on tanks aside, Panther is the worst vehicle in the game.

I dont want to change the topic but, Panther is mainly used to fight tanks, if you use it to fight inf obviously it will not perform well.