Flap banned from coh2.org

Hi everyone,

I started playing this game on Mac 2+ years ago, wasn't cross compatible then and still isn't now. I met Flap on there with a slew of other people as it was a tight knit community with custom games only.

Flap made a comment in the "Kimbo Apology" thread and was swiftly banned as being a duplicate that Kimbo created. Flap reached out to me and asked I post a thread proving his innocence in this (that he is a different person than Kimbo) to get his ban removed.

They've both said they're brothers, but Kimbo trolls so much that I honestly don't know what to believe...

I can only confirm what I know through Steam voice-chat and knowing someone through online gaming for a while (which is nothing concrete or indisputable), but I'm 100% certain that Kimbo and Flap are not the same person. I've played in automatch with both of them at times and in custom games against both of them at the same time.

Assuming this was his only "infraction" for getting banned and nothing else more heinous, I feel it's right him to be granted privileges to coh2.org again.

For what it’s worth, having talked to both of them, I don’t think they’re the same person.

Hard to say for sure with Kimbo’s propensity for trolling though.

My name is Bread, I've been playing COH2 on Mac for almost 3 years, the past 2 with Flap, we have hundreds of hours in game together and almost as many on voice chat. As I've moved away from the US and haven't had a consistent real life social circle in that time I'd go so far as to say Flap has become one of my closer friends, we keep in touch and talk on discord while not in game more than I do with any of my real life friends.

FLAP AND KIMBO ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON

I've talked to both at the same time and heard Kimbo raging in the background while Flap and I played, I've even video chatted with Flap, he gave me a tour of his house and I've seen Kimbo playing. The fact I had to make an account for the forums and write up this post to try and get him unbanned from posting is ludicrous.

Kimbo should be given another chance, the guy is an idiot, a troll to a degree way beyond acceptable but he's a dam fine player and I've spoken to Flap extensively since I saw AE's video about ghosting, I asked him if Kimbo ghosted during GCS, he said no. I asked him if he cheated during GCS he said no. I asked if Kimbo could have ghosted without Flap seeing it, he said Kimbo only has one monitor, unless he's watching another player's stream on his phone/has COH2 windowed or alt tabs back and forth while he plays that's not really possible.

Why should any of you believe me? This forum account is so new the paint isn't even dry, I could just be another smurf account for Kimbo or Flap, but I'm not, if other players or the admins choose not to believe me then I'll get every other Mac player to make a forum account and verify Flap is not the same person as Kimbo. We aren't exactly a large group of people but that lends what we say more credibility, everyone knows everyone.

While Kimbo wrote his apology and it was accepted by some with more than a pinch of salt, rejected by others out of hand, rejected by others after what seems like reasonable consideration, Flap being called an Alter Ego of Kimbo and then Kimbos reputation being tarnished even further and then silenced by Theodosios in post #58; All of this is irrelevant to the point: Kimbo says he ghosted, will continue to ghost in the future and that there was nothing we could do about it, then says he was trolling, tried to explain it, tried to get a discussion going and have his brother (who is of course biased because he is the older brother of Kimbo) defend him. This is a forum, discussion is at the discretion and mercy of moderators, usually that is a good thing but to ban an account under false pretenses for being a duplicate and then insulting Kimbo further for something he didn't do is really, really, really uncool.


I don't know Kimbo well, I've played 2 games against him and got my butt kicked both times, got insulted and trolled in both games and had more than a sprinkle of salt thrown in the wound after the game was over, I'm not the person to defend him, His older brother who isn't a cheeky 17 year old Polish twat is the person to make a reasonable defense of him and if the admins won't even allow that then I've lost faith in the community I've been watching from the sidelines for the past 3 years and had hoped to one day join when I make the switch from Mac to Windows.

My name is Bread, I've been playing COH2 on Mac for almost 3 years, the past 2 with Flap, we have hundreds of hours in game together and almost as many on voice chat. As I've moved away from the US and haven't had a consistent real life social circle in that time I'd go so far as to say Flap has become one of my closer friends, we keep in touch and talk on discord while not in game more than I do with any of my real life friends.

FLAP AND KIMBO ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON

I've talked to both at the same time and heard Kimbo raging in the background while Flap and I played, I've even video chatted with Flap, he gave me a tour of his house and I've seen Kimbo playing. The fact I had to make an account for the forums and write up this post to try and get him unbanned from posting is ludicrous.

Kimbo should be given another chance, the guy is an idiot, a troll to a degree way beyond acceptable but he's a dam fine player and I've spoken to Flap extensively since I saw AE's video about ghosting, I asked him if Kimbo ghosted during GCS, he said no. I asked him if he cheated during GCS he said no. I asked if Kimbo could have ghosted without Flap seeing it, he said Kimbo only has one monitor, unless he's watching another player's stream on his phone/has COH2 windowed or alt tabs back and forth while he plays that's not really possible.

Why should any of you believe me? This forum account is so new the paint isn't even dry, I could just be another smurf account for Kimbo or Flap, but I'm not, if other players or the admins choose not to believe me then I'll get every other Mac player to make a forum account and verify Flap is not the same person as Kimbo. We aren't exactly a large group of people but that lends what we say more credibility, everyone knows everyone.

While Kimbo wrote his apology and it was accepted by some with more than a pinch of salt, rejected by others out of hand, rejected by others after what seems like reasonable consideration, Flap being called an Alter Ego of Kimbo and then Kimbos reputation being tarnished even further and then silenced by Theodosios in post #58; All of this is irrelevant to the point: Kimbo says he ghosted, will continue to ghost in the future and that there was nothing we could do about it, then says he was trolling, tried to explain it, tried to get a discussion going and have his brother (who is of course biased because he is the older brother of Kimbo) defend him. This is a forum, discussion is at the discretion and mercy of moderators, usually that is a good thing but to ban an account under false pretenses for being a duplicate and then insulting Kimbo further for something he didn't do is really, really, really uncool.


I don't know Kimbo well, I've played 2 games against him and got my butt kicked both times, got insulted and trolled in both games and had more than a sprinkle of salt thrown in the wound after the game was over, I'm not the person to defend him, His older brother who isn't a cheeky 17 year old Polish twat is the person to make a reasonable defense of him and if the admins won't even allow that then I've lost faith in the community I've been watching from the sidelines for the past 3 years and had hoped to one day join when I make the switch from Mac to Windows.

If I remember correctly, Ive looked at Flaps profile, curious if it aint a smurf and he had posts several years ago. Though maybe Im just imaginin things...
But yeah, he should be unbanned.
I would even like Kimbo to be unbanned and allowed to GSC2, but there isnt much hope for it.

Yes, it is well possible that he just trolled after facin -what seemed to him like- an undeserved accusation, but allowin into the tournament someone who said that hes goin to ghost and they cant do anythin about it would be bad for the image of the tournament

#ghostingjusthelps

There are 2 issues here, which are separate :

1) Kimbo and GCS2. That debate is led by A_E

2) Moderation on COH2.ORG. This is not debatable. If any poster has an issue with moderation, they are welcome to PM the Director of Moderation, or a Blue Moderator.

I will say that we are considering all the available evidence about Flap - I am quite satisfied that as at last night, it was perfectly in order to view Flap as a 'sleeper account'. Basically, he never posted here, after registering in November 2016. As you will know, we have many posters who attempt smurf accounts. Now, we have to decide if the Flap account here is a genuine poster in his own right, and not an account being misused by Kimbo, a known troll.

After the episode of Hector and his 'brother' (who did not exist), you will have to permit us some leeway, while we make further investigation.

I am genuinely sorry if some people like Hector have spoilt it for others here, by their deceit and lies. But I hope you can see how trolls are to be despised, because they ruin it for others and cause us enormous headaches.

We will seek to make a decision asap

I don't know if all posts in this thread are genuine, although I belive we can trust the judgement of CieZ. If all of the posts are genuine and can be trusted, then I worry that we have not 2 but 3 issues, that are in fact enough of a misjudgement to start to talk about screw ups.

The smallest blame goes obviously to the moderation team, yet showing that moderation uses inflexible and ineffective ways to deal with multiple accounts is kind of worrying. This looks like either IP comparison or usage of cookies. I'm sure both of these methods already helped to find multiple double accounts but they are both easy to go around. What is more, they provide lots of false positives. Less in case of cookies, but cases like family or real life friends may happen. Much more in case of IPv4 comparison, as I know places where thousands of people use the same public IPv4 address. That is why neither of these can be used as a proof of account multiplication and thus I would advise to communicate with both accounts before ban to reduce the number of mistakes. In case of account bans, false positives are much worse than false negatives.

Much bigger blame goes to GCS2 team, for a number of reasons:
1. Using insufficient evidence to judge and ban players.
2. Using a report to relic as a way to solve the problems of the tournament.
3. Supporting public lynch
4. Using the judgement of players who benefit from banning their competitors to judge for a ban.
5. Deciding with unneeded hurry when there was time to rethink things and allow for defence.
6. Changing decisions from "political" game ban to gcs2 ban which resulted in double ban.
Of course, there is still some time before last qualifier so when news from this thread are confirmed, the decision to unban a player can still be done. Still, the damage has already been done as said player can't train before that qualifier, at least not in a way allowed by tournament rules, which is important considering he had good chances to qualify. It may be really hard to compensate if he won't qualify.

Still, the biggest blame goes to many community members who decided to jump on the boy and lynch him for their own fun. There is nothing to justify such behaviour, even if it would be shown the accusations were true.

All of these events must look pretty terrible from the suspect point of view. It must be like being a hero "The Trial" by Kafka, as it looks like everybody conspires against him. Still, as an optimist, I believe it is all just a series of mistakes and misjudgements that can be partially helped. I also hope, that no matter what happens to the posts in this thread, it is going to be a good lesson for everyone involved.

This thread was about Flap and not about Kimbo and that drama (although they are intertwined somewhat). Would appreciate it if we can keep on track.

Major: coming as a friend of Flap and all the others I met on Mac (Bread "Breadator" included), what can I tell him to help him get his account reinstated?

The issue of accessing coh2.org is not the issues, as he could just create another account (ironic in this situation lol), I think it's more about clearing his name regarding the confusion and accusations.

This thread was about Flap and not about Kimbo and that drama (although they are intertwined somewhat). Would appreciate it if we can keep on track.

Major: coming as a friend of Flap and all the others I met on Mac (Bread "Breadator" included), what can I tell him to help him get his account reinstated?

The issue of accessing coh2.org is not the issues, as he could just create another account (ironic in this situation lol), I think it's more about clearing his name regarding the confusion and accusations.

He can't just create another account. As long as he is officially banned for supposed multi account, any account he makes is going to be out right banned and will prolong kimbo's ban.

What is more, if he decides to create another account his ban may not be lifted even if kimbo is proven innocent. To quote site rules:

• 1.5 Multiple Accounts
  
  • Creating multiple accounts is not allowed and all multiple accounts will be permanently banned.
    
  • Actions:
    
    • Creating a new account while being banned will increase the duration of the original ban by doubling it.
      
    • If the duration of the original ban is permanent, an Admin will perform an IP Address based ban if necessary.
      
    • Creating a new account while NOT being banned will result in a warning or a ban, up to 7 days.

He can't just create another account. As long as he is officially banned for supposed multi account, any account he makes is going to be out right banned and will prolong kimbo's ban.

Ah, I did not know that...

Yeah looks like an IP match was used to ban his account. not fool proof, but it looks like they acknowledged a mistake and reversed the ban. Nothing political about kimbo's ban though. People who have experienced playing against him know that he blatantly ghosts, insults people, and is generally a terrible person. Through all of this, he was still given conditional entry when people like lmctx and prodigly were not. He blew it. No sympathy.

The issue was solved by the moderation team after evaluation of most recent evidence. The conclusion was drawn that the account Flap belongs indeed not to KIMBO MAD SLICE and penalties applied were lifted. Therefore, I will close this thread.