OKW UP?

This is the most absurd fallacy ever, yet I see it across all game forums, from MOBAs to RTS to FPS.

Win rate means literally nothing. You cannot and must not, ever, adjust balance/redesign around win or loss rates.

A character/faction/unit/weapon in a game can be literally a Godmode hack, killing every single enemy instantly from across the entire map, and it could still have a 50% or 30% or any percent win rate due to player actions.

When something is underpowered or overpowered, it's objectively obvious. It's evident from observation, in an isolated scenario without tactics/player choice/map selection/etc. and without the need for statistics.

The moment you bring win/loss rates into it is the moment you go off the rails and start overnerfing or overbuffing things based on completely arbitrary, temporary state of multiplayer gameplay that depends on random factors and player decisions, not unit/character/weapon performance.

Please, just stop using this flawed argument and try actually reasoning from first principles for once.

tl;dr

its not obvious to boos like you, obviously. I said GCS, the cream of the crop, the best, the elite. And OKW dominated with highest winrate, thats straight up facts and statistics but u still have to try and write a text wall of nonsense just to live in ur laa laa land.
I wonder what you think about UKF and USF then. Maybe they just dont know how to play USF/UKF I guess, makes sense.

its not obvious to boos like you, obviously. I said GCS, the cream of the crop, the best, the elite. And OKW dominated with highest winrate, thats straight up facts and statistics but u still have to try and write a text wall of nonsense just to live in ur laa laa land.
I wonder what you think about UKF and USF then. Maybe they just dont know how to play USF/UKF I guess, makes sense.

Storm Elite is right you know... Winrates are just that, winrates.
I dont get why the hostility against someone who doesnt agree with you.
Find another excuse aside GCS tournament. Even elite playes make bad decisions or make mistakes.

If a match vs OKW is hard for you, pls dont cry OKW OP...

This is the most absurd fallacy ever, yet I see it across all game forums, from MOBAs to RTS to FPS.

Win rate means literally nothing. You cannot and must not, ever, adjust balance/redesign around win or loss rates.

A character/faction/unit/weapon in a game can be literally a Godmode hack, killing every single enemy instantly from across the entire map, and it could still have a 50% or 30% or any percent win rate due to player actions.

When something is underpowered or overpowered, it's objectively obvious. It's evident from observation, in an isolated scenario without tactics/player choice/map selection/etc. and without the need for statistics.

The moment you bring win/loss rates into it is the moment you go off the rails and start overnerfing or overbuffing things based on completely arbitrary, temporary state of multiplayer gameplay that depends on random factors and player decisions, not unit/character/weapon performance.

Please, just stop using this flawed argument and try actually reasoning from first principles for once.

this is simply a ridiculous excuse for apologetics to justify an overpowered/underpowered faction... there is literally no metric other than WN8 and WN10 for world of tanks in order to objectively measure overall faction performance... after all there is no other data in numbers that come out of the tournaments other than winrate...

note the term objective refers to a measure done without the influence of feelings and opinions whereas subjective is vice versa

now ofc it is true that winrate has its flaws... lots of other factors such as player skill and circumstance factor in... fortunately player skill is a factor which we do have an idea of as many of the veteran players have overall winrates in their factions... not only that... gcs actually includes a faction swap soo it actually factors out individual player skill out of the picture... mostly at least but not entirely...

the rest of the data that can be gathered is entirely subjective and a game must not be balanced on that

Storm Elite is right you know... Winrates are just that, winrates.
I dont get why the hostility against someone who doesnt agree with you.
Find another excuse aside GCS tournament. Even elite playes make bad decisions or make mistakes.

If a match vs OKW is hard for you, pls dont cry OKW OP...

okw isnt OP... USF is UP and so is UKF... if you dont agree with the empirical evidence then get out of the discussion.. your "feelings" should have no factor in balancing

your argument reminds me of how flatearthers deny the oblate spheroidness of earth despite all the objective evidence given despite the numbers and facts being clear and concise... you still deny them thoroughly

I sincerely think OKW is UP, because it relied on strong but few units, and they had been constantly nerfed. Many units now have a little window to shine, sometimes luck is needed to succeed and sometimes an enemy mistake is needed too.
Since winrates care so much for a few people, instead of real game balance OKW is in the center of many discussions. OKW is not a very flexible faction, it only has the advantage of early dominance because everyone knows how to counter their units already.
Maybe if the faction got a rework or revamp it could solve many problems

I sincerely think OKW is UP, because it relied on strong but few units, and they had been constantly nerfed. Many units now have a little window to shine, sometimes luck is needed to succeed and sometimes an enemy mistake is needed too.
Since winrates care so much for a few people, instead of real game balance OKW is in the center of many discussions. OKW is not a very flexible faction, it only has the advantage of early dominance because everyone knows how to counter their units already.
Maybe if the faction got a rework or revamp it could solve many problems

contrary to your belief OKW has many strong units... sturms obers volks panzer 4s luchs puma stuka zu fuss flak HT and free nondoc mapacks are all good nondoc units...

contrast this to SOV... m3 penals zis 3 T-70 SU-85 T-34 and katy are its only good units... rest suck balls... cough maxim cough.... but those good units have soo much synergy however...

as for wehrmacht? pak 40 mg42 lmg grens ostheer turbomortar panzer 4 stug3 ostheer sniper brummbar (its been buffed enough to be good) 222 panzerwerfer (suppresses and drops all rockets at once) pgrens and flame HT are all good...

and lastly all these are opinions... subjective interpretations not objective ones... i could say that the earth is flat and thats my opinion ignoring objective and empirical evidence... do you see how ridiculous what your claim is?

as per COH2 the only real data here is the GCS tournament winrates factoring in the faction switch which partially factors out player skill the data contradicts the premise of your entire argument... OKW is NOT UP and if you wanna join the flat earthers club fine do so... just dont be overly insistent on your opinion in the forums...

contrary to your belief OKW has many strong units... sturms obers volks panzer 4s luchs puma stuka zu fuss flak HT and free nondoc mapacks are all good nondoc units...

"OKM OP"

contrast this to SOV... m3 penals zis 3 T-70 SU-85 T-34 and katy are its only good units... rest suck balls... cough maxim cough.... but those good units have soo much synergy however...

"SOV UP"

as for wehrmacht? pak 40 mg42 lmg grens ostheer turbomortar panzer 4 stug3 ostheer sniper brummbar (its been buffed enough to be good) 222 panzerwerfer (suppresses and drops all rockets at once) pgrens and flame HT are all good...

"OST OP"

Yup, not biased at all...

and lastly all these are opinions... subjective interpretations not objective ones... i could say that the earth is flat and thats my opinion ignoring objective and empirical evidence... do you see how ridiculous what your claim is?

Unnecesary hate, flame and stupid argument...

Back to grown up people, those who know and understand properly a sentence.
Maybe OKW is UP, but its fine as it is, it could shine brighter but UKF and USF should get propper buffs too

Storm Elite is right you know... Winrates are just that, winrates.
I dont get why the hostility against someone who doesnt agree with you.
Find another excuse aside GCS tournament. Even elite playes make bad decisions or make mistakes.

If a match vs OKW is hard for you, pls dont cry OKW OP...

I dont play USF/UKF so its not hard for me , infact I prefer it over Ostheer because ostheer is straight up aids.

Alright folks, let's keep it civil and on topic.

Storm Elite is right you know... Winrates are just that, winrates.
I dont get why the hostility against someone who doesnt agree with you.
Find another excuse aside GCS tournament. Even elite playes make bad decisions or make mistakes.

If a match vs OKW is hard for you, pls dont cry OKW OP...

Win rates are very important in a balance discussion. Most competitive games at least consider win rates in balancing factions. For example if a faction has a less than 40% winrate then something isn't right. For coh2 if all factions could fall into the 45-55% win rate then the game would be very well balanced. a 10% differential should be the margin for player based error in losses. Factions like USF and UKF with sub 40% win rates cannot all be based on the players considering these are all the best players in coh2.

Along with winrates you can also look at pick rates. Both USF and UKF fall way below any of the other 3 factions in winrate and pickrate. That means even when the faction was rarely picked the player more then likely lost with them.

Winrates per Faction:

Allies:
Sov: 51% overall, 53% vs Ost, 52% vs OKW
USF: 36% overall, 37% vs Ost, 36% vs OKW
UKF: 31% overall, 33% vs Ost, 30% vs OKW

Axis:
Ost: 53% overall, 47% vs Sov, 63% vs USF, 66% vs UKF
OKW: 57% overall, 48% vs Sov, 64% vs USF, 70% vs UKF

Pickrates per faction:

Allied games played: 351
Soviet: 207/351 59% pickrate
USF: 99/351, 28% Pickrate
UKF: 45/351, 13% pickrate

Axis game played: 351
OKW: 177/351, 50.5% pickrate
OST: 174/351, 49.5% pickrate

OKW has the 2nd highest pickrate and highest winrate amongst all factions, clearly they are pretty strong. I would hesitate to call them OP since they went relatively even against SOV, but against UKF and USF they destroyed them both.

With a combination of Winrate and pickrate you can conclude pretty convincingly that both USF and UKF need some adjustment to be viable. No competitive game should have factions with a 28% pick rate and 36% winrate (USF) or a 13% pickrate and a 31% winrate. Those are abysmal numbers that cannot be based off player error and/or favor. Many players notorious for their USF or UKF play never/rarely played the faction (IE Devm's USF 0 times played in gcs2 and Refero's winrate UKF played 3 times with a 0% winrate)