Langres Mark v2 Proposal

COH2 is not vcoh and merely porting old maps as nostalgic stop gap measures is not meeting the needs of a competitive game with new factions. The soviets are not the americans, etc etc, and what worked for vcoh does not automatically work for coh2. Adjustments to the maps for the sake of gameplay, balance, and fun must be made to keep these old classics alive and competitive in a new game.

I propose that Langreslaya be rebalanced and updated for fair play while retaining the overall flow and style of the map.

Current Balance issues:
Overall the player spawning on the top regardless of faction is at a disadvantage when compared to the southern start.

1. Northern cutoff is significantly easier to harass than the south.
2. Southern base location allow for much easier force projection onto the southernmost two strategic points and the cutoff which make retention of these points difficult.
3. The eastern munitions and fuel are the key battleground of the map as they are the shortest routes between the two bases and open terrain.
4. The unit spawns and overall flow of the map/hedgerows encourage the southern player to capture his own high value points and move on aggressively against the north. The northern player has to start very defensively and is unable to both harass the enemy fuel while capping his own in relative safety.
5. The left side is compact and full of vision blockers compared to the wide open right fuel and munitions.
6. There is no reason for a stratetic point in the top left of the map where there is no action. The point is also covered by a static base MG which is poor map design.

And so on.

Proposal
My vision for this map is symmetrical play for both starts more akin to angoville from vcoh by shifting the course of the center road and eastern points. The map will retain its small size, same quantity of resources, bisecting hedgerows, and low building count.

1. Both spawns will now be set for exactly opposite corners instead of the northern player having an uncontested point to his west. Both bases are farther from the cutoff points while unit spawn points generally stay the same. This is to make it somewhat harder to project force from within your base sector, especially in the south.

2. The primary road will take a more northerly course between the bases. The center VP will sit in the middle of the road and hedgerow openings similar to the southern VP on Kholdny summer or center VP angoville.

3. The eastern half of the map has been completely readjusted to accommodate a fairer cutoff scheme.

4. The fuel points are both equally defensible and away from the main battle flow. They will require a concerted harassment effort similar to the current western langreskaya fuel point.


Rough sketch:


Existing map layout for comparison:


What are your thoughts?

Did a five year old with a box of crayons do the coloring on your map?

Sorry, that was my only thoughts on this.

All of is was done with what proof/empirical evidence? Just your opinion?

PS these maps are not merely ports. If they were, I think they'd probably work better actually.

heeeey, this is what i already posted about! nice work on the improvements there immortal, i came up with a similar map layout.

Maybe a bit too much hedgerows but nice looking map. Too bad there isn't a map maker otherwise you could have probably made it yourself and sent it to relic.

Personally I think a Langreskaya south start is very Ostheer favoured (and forces the Soviets to go with snipers), while a Langreskaya North Ostheer start is pretty well balanced between the factions. Kind of want to see how flanking and the MG bulletins are fixed before saying it needs some sort of change to make more strategies viable as a Soviet on Langreskaya North. I'm curious as to whether anyone's going LHS from the north start... it seems like that would be easier to hold/less likely to get you cut-off stomped as the Soviets.

Changing it to Angoville layout seems a bit unneeded, and I think the symmetry would make the map a bit flavourless.

seems interesting might work or it might make it worse.

The sketch map (behold my paint skills, ye mighty, and tremble) was really just to demonstrate the relocation of the points. The road itself can swoop around or whatever and the map maker can go to town making the sides as different as he likes aesthetically to retain flavor; the key point is that the cut off moves more to the right and the flow of the battlefield becomes more equitable instead of falling almost solely on the east half. I used the angoville example not because I want langres to BE angoville, but as a way to help you visualize the new placement of the center VP actually in a neutral position.

Everything else like buildings, hedgerows whatever are not the point here, I just added them in to help visualize some changes.

@dave: what empirical evidence can I provide you that a map that hasnt been made yet plays fairer than the one we have now? You want quantitative proof that the main battlefield of the map is the right side instead of the left? Anyone who has played this map in coh2 over and over again in 1v1 automatches will understand as its mostly intuitive.

Example: If a soviet player who starts in the top wants to send his first conscript to harass the southern fuel, he gives up his cutoff and gets base pinned basically as soon as I walk there as ostheer. On the other hand a southern soviet player can send his first conscripts/engys to contest the eastern fuel point right from the start because his own fuel (the west) is safely tucked away in a corner far away from the battlefield ready for backcapping.

the whole idea of langres wath the cut offs. i mean that what all the early -mid game was about.
as i remember it you either go for the safe rout with +10 fuel or you go for the direction that tend to be cut off for the chance of 2 +10 fuels + tendency for controlling the center VP point.

in coh 2 there is no such choice really. the resources are mirrored precisely same on both sides of the center VP

good idea, langres is unplayable with sovjets on the north. But sorry dude Relic won`t do that... Relic dont care about mapbalance. Maybe when they balanced the Units than they will do that. For CoH1 they needed 7 years to "balance" the Game...

... Relic dont care about mapbalance. ...

This is not true. Especially Eagleheart, who is responsible for multiplayer maps, is having a close look on map feedback. Some maps have already been altered significantly to address issues (e.g. Minsk Pocket) and others are being looked at in the future as well.

Maybe they'll eventually stop listening to CoH1 nostalgic crybabies and do their own thing, like they did previously. So far the VCoH adaptions hasn't really been working out that great. And I honestly fear for the future as well. :|